Droit de réponse de Gameblog.fr
A l'évidence, de l'avis de la Rédaction de Gameblog.fr, chacun a le droit de critiquer et de ne pas se reconnaître dans la ligne éditoriale que nous avons choisie. Il est tout à fait normal de l'exprimer, ce n'est pas ce qui motive ce droit de réponse.
Mais la critique est une chose, les erreurs factuelles et la diffamation en sont d'autres, et après que notre journaliste Julien Chièze a passé plus de deux heures au téléphone avec l'auteur, si quelques infimes corrections factuelles ont bien eu lieu, elles sont loin d'être exhaustives, malgré de notre côté des explications beaucoup plus amples et précises. Comme il n'est pas dans notre nature de porter l'affaire au-delà de ce cadre, nous nous contenterons donc d'apporter par ce droit de réponse les très nombreux éléments que l'auteur n'a pas ajoutés ou corrigés. Par avance, nous nous excusons de la longueur de ce droit de réponse, mais elle est à la mesure de la quantité d'amalgames et d'erreurs commises par l'auteur.
D'abord, Julien Chièze a créé une auto-entreprise pour séparer, justement, ses activités non journalistiques et l'entité Gameblog.fr de manière nette. Quant à la "requête si surprenante qu'elle a fait rire jusqu'aux journalistes du Monde" ; il s'agit plutôt d'une seule journaliste, qui se trompait, lorsqu'elle a formulé ce commentaire, parce qu'elle ignorait que cette requête a bien fait l'objet d'une rétribution (d'ailleurs, l'illustrateur continue de travailler pour Gameblog contre rémunération). Par ailleurs, si Raton-Laveur avait fait l'effort de mieux enquêter à ce sujet, il aurait découvert sans peine que ces éléments ont été postés bien avant qu'ils ne soient rappelés ici (http://www.gameblog.fr/blogs/JulienC/p_23791_logo-spootnix-le-vainqueur).
Paris Games Week
- Si une barre Windows Media Player est apparue pendant la présentation, ce n'est en aucun cas parce que celle-ci n'était pas en temps réel. C'est un incident lié au fait que plusieurs appareils étaient reliés au même écran par commodité, et qu'une commutation éclair a eu lieu par erreur. La démo était bien en temps réel et des plantages publics en témoignent. Dans le texte original (que vous pouvez visionner ici : http://www.gameblog.fr/EditotakuGameblog_post_original.pdf), Raton parle de "fiasco" et de "mascarade" ; ceux qui ont assisté à cette avant-première semblent majoritairement de l'avis inverse, et ravis d'avoir pu y assister. Bref, les problèmes de ce point sont, après correction, nuls et non avenus.
Heavy Rain :
- Des publicités pour le jeu sont bien apparues sur le site autour de sa sortie. Il se trouve en effet que les publicitaires préfèrent acheter de la publicité autour de la sortie du produit qu'elles concernent : c'est souvent plus efficace, et c'est le cas pour tous les jeux qui sortent. C'est aussi le cas pour les magazines papier, les autres sites internet, la télévision, pour toutes les industries et dans tous les cas de figure. Par ailleurs, la publicité de Gameblog est gérée par une régie externe, Free Zone, c'est à dire une société différente dans laquelle ni la société Gameblog ni ses membres n'ont de parts, et qui commercialise ces espaces de manière indépendante, ainsi que ceux de nombreux autres sites.
- Le blog de David Cage a été mis en place après un reportage chez Quantic Dream, au cours duquel nous avons proposé à David Cage ce Blog VIP. Il se trouve que le contenu des posts a été écrit en français à la base, puis traduit en anglais pour IGN, il a donc accepté de les partager dans leur forme originale avec les lecteurs de Gameblog. Bien entendu, aucune transaction financière, dans un sens ou dans l'autre, n'a eu lieu.
- La tenue des Blogs VIP de Gameblog appartient à leurs propriétaires, qui y postent ce qu'ils veulent. La rédaction n'a découvert qu'après coup que les images choisies par David Cage pour illustrer son post sur la soirée de lancement du jeu étaient celles de Jeuxactu. Nous ne nous sommes pas faits "choper" puisque nous ne le savions pas nous-mêmes. Nous les avons contactés aussitôt, ils ont accepté qu'elles soient ainsi utilisées. Nous avons rajouté la note sous chacune des photos, avec un lien vers Jeuxactu ; rien de "timide" dans cette ajout, visible en de multiples endroits. Rappelons au passage que ces photos sont tout de même celles d'une soirée organisée par David Cage et Quantic Dream à l'occasion de la sortie de leur jeu, et sur laquelle ils figurent – ils ont donc des droits les concernant.
- Nous ne nous excuserons pas d'avoir aimé le jeu suffisamment pour lui mettre 5/5. C'est parce que nous avons aimé ce que nous connaissions à l'époque du jeu que nous avons tenu à la mise en place d'un Blog VIP, et non l'inverse. Par ailleurs, il n'est pas rare que des jeux soient sanctionnés d'un 5/5 sur Gameblog, une telle appréciation ne représentant pas par ailleurs dans notre système une quelconque perfection (http://www.gameblog.fr/news_20492_les-tests-de-gameblog-evoluent).
- Gamekult et toute autre publication a tout à fait le droit, fort heureusement, de ne pas être du même avis que nous. Raton Laveur fait ici un raccourci et un amalgame graves ; Julien Chièze, et la Rédaction, comprennent en effet que Sony ait souhaité ne pas faire de publicité sur Gamekult après que le site a exprimé une opinion tiède sur le jeu et uniquement cela, pas le reste de l'incident entre ces deux parties, pas la liste noire. Ne pas acheter de publicité est une chose, couper les relations en est une autre. C'est d'ailleurs précisément ce que Julien Chièze dit dans cette même interview de Console Syndrome (parlant du blacklistage de Sony) : "ça me choque. Gamekult a tout à fait la liberté de ne pas aimer Heavy Rain et de le dire. C’est la base du journalisme". De plus, la phrase de Raton "Donc, la gestion de la publicité liée au rédactionnel c'est normal" n'a rien d'autre à faire ici qu'entretenir l'amalgame et la confusion. Il n'y a pas de "gestion liée au rédactionnel de la publicité" là-dedans ! Aucune contradiction avec ce que nous avons exprimé, simplement un annonceur qui choisit de ne pas annoncer sur une publication qui n'a pas aimé son produit. Raton Laveur oublie purement et simplement de citer ce qui concerne le reste de l'incident, hors retrait de la publicité.
- Raton écrit :
"Dans cette même interview, il critique Gamekult" ; c'est faux.
À aucun moment Julien Chièze ne critique le choix de Gamekult de communiquer sur ce litige en public dans l'interview accordée à Console Syndrome : il explique. Citons : "Quand Sony appelle Gamekult et qu’ils s’expliquent entre eux, ça reste dans la sphère privée" en effet, lorsque les deux parties sont au téléphone à ce sujet, cela concerne la sphère privée (c'est un fait, le coup de fil n'étant pas alors retransmis sur tous les téléscripteurs mondiaux). "Mais si plus tard, tu vois des traces de cette discussion sur Twitter ou autre, ça déborde dans le domaine public". Encore une fois ce n'est qu'énoncer un fait. "Je comprends alors que Sony puisse se braquer et que cela ait envenimé les choses" : fin du passage incriminé par Raton. Où Julien Chièze a-t-il critiqué Gamekult ? Ils sont libres de gérer leurs conflits comme ils l'entendent, et en l'occurrence, nous n'avons pas l'audace, contrairement à Raton, de prétendre connaître tous les tenants et aboutissants du dit conflit pour y apporter un jugement plus prononcé. - "les
rédacteurs travaillent communément sur le rédactionnel d'IG Magazine" ; c'est faux.
Dans quelques cas bien particuliers les deux rédactions ont échangé des contenus, mais IG Magazine dispose de ses propres équipes rédactionnelles. Nous n'assurons pas le contenu du magazine, pas plus que nous ne le décidons. - "les pubs sur le site sont majoritairement tournées vers le jeu vidéo, semblant oublier que le public du site a également besoin d'autres loisirs, de s'habiller ou de manger ;" Encore une fois, ce sont les publicitaires qui décident d'annoncer sur Gameblog, et non Gameblog quoi choisit les publicités qu'il diffuse. Il se trouve que ces publicitaires préfèrent acheter de la publicité sur les médias qui parlent de leur catégorie de produits, car il se trouve que les lecteurs de ces médias s'y intéressent. C'est souvent plus efficace. C'est encore une fois Free Zone qui commercialise les espaces publicitaires de Gameblog, sans intervention de la part de la Rédaction. Par ailleurs, Gameblog a déjà eu des publicités pour des pizzas, du poker en ligne, des fournisseurs d'accès à Internet, de la téléphonie mobile, du e-commerce, etc. Nous serions ravis de pouvoir ajouter les pantalons et les auberges de jeunesse à cette liste, mais… c'est du ressort de Free Zone, notre régie de pub externe (et surtout des annonceurs en question).
- "Ce dilemme est impossible à résoudre, et cela a bien été démontré aux USA par GameSpot" ; GameSpot a une régie interne, et mène sa barque comme il l'entend. Notre régie est externe. Gameblog n'a jamais modifié de note ni licencié de collaborateur pour des questions publicitaires et ne le fera jamais. Nous ne savons même pas toujours quelles sont les publicités que nous aurons d'une semaine sur l'autre, et les découvrons lorsqu'elles sont imprimées sur les pages, parfois pour un jeu que nous avons mal noté… sur la page même du test.
Chasse à l'audimat :
- Les citations de sources : Gameblog cite systématiquement d'autres sources, quotidiennement, soit par "-Via-" (exemple : http://www.gameblog.fr/news_21095_gdc-2011-shenmue-3-sega-enfin-prêt) en fin de news, soit directement et nommément dans les corps de textes, et ce qu'ils soient anglo-saxons (http://www.gameblog.fr/news_20015_playstation-phone-les-specificites-techniques), japonais (http://www.gameblog.fr/news_20817_le-developpement-de-la-ps4-suspendu), français (exemple http://www.gameblog.fr/news_20007_top-20-des-ventes-de-jeux-video-en-france-en-2010) ou même papier (http://www.gameblog.fr/news_20942_the-last-guardian-le-plein-d-infos). Par ailleurs, certains de nos confrères sont bien moins systématiques que Gameblog sur ce point (notamment dans le cas de sources françaises), chacun pourra l'observer de lui-même.
- Les sources d'information sont multiples, et nombreuses sont celles qui parviennent à plusieurs publications en même temps. Par exemple toutes les rédactions reçoivent des communiqués de presse identiques et au même moment. Ce qui ne veut pas dire qu'elles les traiteront en même temps. Lorsque nous postons une info de source officielle par exemple, ce n'est pas parce que d'autres l'ont posté avant que nous devons les citer.
- Quand Raton écrit : "une news (signée Julien Chièze) intitulée "Bioshock 2, des putains de sodomites partout" avec pour sous-titre "Les développeurs sont-ils allés trop loin ?" ", Raton-Laveur a enlevé des guillemets, semant la confusion en attribuant ces propos au journaliste qui écrit la news. En réalité, le véritable titre de la news est : "BioShock 2 : "des putains de sodomites partout" ", c'est à dire une citation extraite des dialogues du jeu. Lorsqu'on rétablit cet élément, la thèse de Raton n'est plus illustrée que par un exemple erroné, donc non recevable. On peut, nous aussi, légitimement poser la question : pourquoi avoir retiré ces guillemets ?
- La Wi Hi-Fi : d'abord, la news est au conditionnel, et taggée "Rumeurs". De même son texte fait usage de conditionnel et de pincettes. Par ailleurs, la source nous ayant révélé ce nom de code et le cœur de l'information (Nintendo envisageant de présenter quelque chose sur sa prochaine console de salon à l'E3 2010) est la même que celle qui nous a permis de révéler en exclusivité mondiale que Mizuguchi allait ouvrir la conférence Ubisoft, qu'il y annoncera un successeur de Rez, qu'il s'appellera Child of Eden, informations qui se sont toutes révélées exactes (http://www.gameblog.fr/news_16004_e3-10-child-of-eden-le-prochain-mizuguchi). Parfois, des plans changent à quelques heures même d'une conférence. C'est même très courant à l'E3 où les conférences s'enchaînent à quelques heures les unes des autres. Nous avions choisi de révéler cette information également, celle-ci ne s'est malheureusement pas concrétisée. Elle n'en demeurait pas moins, au moment de sa publication, tout à fait valable et sourcée.
Star System :
- Raton écrit : "Vous devez le voir à la quantité de sources citées : en écrivant cet article, j'ai quand même fait mes devoirs." Il ne suffit pas de mettre des liens, et de faire des citations tronquées pour "avoir fait ses devoirs", comme l'illustre le présent Droit de Réponse. Faire vraiment bien ses devoirs l'aurait empêché de prêter de fausses intentions, de poster des faits erronés.
- Le blog des rédacteurs, le blog de La Rédaction, et le blog de ses proches collaborateurs comme Cyril Drevet sont des pans tout à fait différents du fil d'actualité, qui agglomère news, articles, vidéos, dossiers, podcasts, etc. publiés par le site. Ils sont d'ailleurs désormais séparés en Home. En tant que blogs, ils sont personnels et ne relèvent pas de la ligne éditoriale du site. La Rédaction dans son ensemble considère ainsi que chacun est libre d'exprimer un point de vue tout à fait personnel dans ces espaces (tant qu'il respecte la Loi, bien sûr).
Nous avons aussi lu les commentaires. À l'intérieur, il y a encore beaucoup de faits affirmés sur les vies ou les parcours qui sont factuellement faux, mais nous avons déjà été bien longs. Nous ne reviendrons pas à chaque fois sur ce genre de diffamations, ou les qu'en dira-t-on.
Ce n'est pas la première fois que nous faisons l'objet de telles attaques, et ce ne sera probablement pas la dernière non plus, vu l'audience atteinte aujourd'hui par Gameblog et sa place grandissante dans le paysage des sites traitant de jeu vidéo. Tant qu'il s'agit d'opinions, elles ne nous posent aucun problème, nous savons ce qu'est notre ligne éditoriale, ses spécificités, et vers où nous désirons l'emmener. Et ce choix nous appartient. Libre à chacun de l'apprécier ou non.
N'oublions pas non plus que le jeu vidéo est un divertissement, que Gameblog traite son actualité de manière diverse. Sérieusement avec des dossiers de fond, interviews, articles divers, news factuelles, parfois plus légèrement dans ses à-côtés comme les blogs, ou ailleurs, le tout saupoudré de bonne humeur.
Et maintenant, on va manger des gâteaux.
Julo, JulienC, Trazom et RaHaN
Par Raton-Laveur le 03 mars 2011, 20:24 - Jeux vidéo - Lien permanent
Commentaires
J'espère que les gateaux seront partagés maintenant que c'est l'heure alors :)
mais pourquoi le droit de réponse est ici et pas chez eux ?
ah oui, ils veulent pas te faire de la pub.
Le droit de réponse ne se publie pas toujours dans le média d'origine ?
En fait ce droit de réponse est juste une blague, il suffit de lire l'edit de Raton dans son précédent article.
Okey ...
Ok cool, maintenant le raton peut enfin fermer sa grande gueule à tout jamais. :hap:
Merci et au revoir.
La vaste blague c'est le raton laveur, et rien d'autre, il y a juste à lire le droit de réponse pour se rendre compte de la quantité de connerie que Gameblog met en lumière.
Et les femmes dénudées ?
Vous trouvez ça normal, vraiment ?
L'heure n'est pas aux droits de réponse.
[...] ou les qu'en dira-t-on.
Oh, pas mal.
"Le 03 mars 2011, 20:38 par Choco
Et les femmes dénudées ?
Vous trouvez ça normal, vraiment ?"
T'es idiot ?
Pour la Wii Hi-Fi :
"Par ailleurs, la source nous ayant révélé ce nom de code et le cœur de l'information (Nintendo envisageant de présenter quelque chose sur sa prochaine console de salon à l'E3 2010) est la même que celle qui nous a permis de révéler en exclusivité mondiale que Mizuguchi allait ouvrir la conférence Ubisoft, qu'il y annoncera un successeur de Rez, qu'il s'appellera Child of Eden, informations qui se sont toutes révélées exactes (http://www.gameblog.fr/news_16004_e...). Parfois, des plans changent à quelques heures même d'une conférence. C'est même très courant à l'E3 où les conférences s'enchaînent à quelques heures les unes des autres. Nous avions choisi de révéler cette information également, celle-ci ne s'est malheureusement pas concrétisée. Elle n'en demeurait pas moins, au moment de sa publication, tout à fait valable et sourcée."
C'est tellement bidon ahaha. Entre annoncer une nouvelle console et que quelqu'un ouvrira une conférence, il y a quand même une petite différence, non ?
Un droit de réponse ? Ca ressemble plutôt a un outil promotionnel, cette réponse ! En fait, Gameblog ne répond pas sur le fond de cette affaire, mais ne fait que "rectifier" certains éléments de forme. Très décevant comme droit de réponse, puisque la réponse ne répond même pas vraiment aux problématiques soulevés.
4/20 Appréciations : bonne rhétorique, mais hors sujet. Bien exposer la problématique pour la prochaine fois
Ok, ils reprennent certains points de l'argumentaire de Raton pour en occulter d'autres puis ils bloquent (à juste titre) sur la position de guillemets... fut un temps je respectais ces gars plus maintenant et le tout sans ressentir le moindre sentiment de haine envers qui que ce soit. Qu'il fasse leur chemin, je ferais le mien. Sinon certains auront remarqué quelques lieux communs et pratiques louches dans leur reponse que ce soit sur la gestion en régie (même externe) jusqu'à la gestion des copyrights sur photo (dans la boite où je travaillais, dans le top 3 de l'e-commerce en France, on gardait les screens à la manière de WebAgencyFAIL) rassurez vous c'est normal...
Si vous voulez vraiment vous "divertir" faites le meme genre de demarche avec de vrais journalistes (car les journalistes sportifs et spécialisés se sont pas vraiment des journalistes :joke:) vous verrez que les réponses sont 100x plus rock n roll, rock n roll mais pas necessairement à propos.
13. Le 03 mars 2011, 20:44 par BigBossFF
Un droit de réponse ? Ca ressemble plutôt a un outil promotionnel, cette réponse ! En fait, Gameblog ne répond pas sur le fond de cette affaire, mais ne fait que "rectifier" certains éléments de forme. Très décevant comme droit de réponse, puisque la réponse ne répond même pas vraiment aux problématiques soulevés.
4/20 Appréciations : bonne rhétorique, mais hors sujet. Bien exposer la problématique pour la prochaine fois
Votre commentaire a été publié.
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Entièrement faux. Ta pseudo analyse est de la pure connerie , je suis désolé de te le dire.
Heureusement que nous parlons de journalisme vidéoludique...ce n'est que du jeu vidéo...
Erwan, laisse moi deviner, c'est toi qui a offert l'Ipad à JulienC, non ?
J'avoue, ce ne sont que quelques millions de dollars brassés chaque année.
Tout ce que je retiens de ce droit de réponse :
http://images1.memegenerator.net/Im...
14. Le 03 mars 2011, 20:46 par flousta
Ok, ils reprennent certains points de l'argumentaire de Raton pour en occulter d'autres puis ils bloquent (à juste titre) sur la position de guillemets... fut un temps je respectais ces gars plus maintenant et le tout sans ressentir le moindre sentiment de haine envers qui que ce soit. Qu'il fasse leur chemin, je ferais le mien. Sinon certains auront remarqué quelques lieux communs et pratiques louches dans leur reponse que ce soit sur la gestion en régie (même externe) jusqu'à la gestion des copyrights sur photo (dans la boite où je travaillais, dans le top 3 de l'e-commerce en France, on gardait les screens à la manière de WebAgencyFAIL) rassurez vous c'est normal...
Si vous voulez vraiment vous "divertir" faites le meme genre de demarche avec de vrais journalistes (car les journalistes sportifs et spécialisés se sont pas vraiment des journalistes :joke:) vous verrez que les réponses sont 100x plus rock n roll, rock n roll mais pas necessairement à propos.
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Encore une fois, non et non. Il ne faut pas lire entre les lignes, tout est expliqué pourtant.... navrant de voir de telle commentaire comme le tiens complètement à coté de la plaque.
Haha, l'explication sur le Deus Ex est juste pitoyable.
N'importe quel informaticien ne pourrait jamais croire à ce genre de connerie. C'est marrant comment GB et JulienC s'enfoncent alors qu'à la base ça ne devait même pas être de sa faute si la présentation était bidonnée pour commencer.
La loyauté ça paye mais pas quand on en devient ridicule.
"17. Le 03 mars 2011, 20:50 par Sly
Erwan, laisse moi deviner, c'est toi qui a offert l'Ipad à JulienC, non ?"
_________
Non, et toi t'es jaloux apparemment. :rire:
/popcorn
@erwan
"Ok cool, maintenant le raton peut enfin fermer sa grande gueule à tout jamais"
"Ta pseudo analyse est de la pure connerie"
"T'es idiot ?"
c'est bien d'être insultant, ça crédibilise a mort ton argumentation.
"21. Le 03 mars 2011, 20:51 par Axel Terizaki
Haha, l'explication sur le Deus Ex est juste pitoyable.
N'importe quel informaticien ne pourrait jamais croire à ce genre de connerie. C'est marrant comment GB et JulienC s'enfoncent alors qu'à la base ça ne devait même pas être de sa faute si la présentation était bidonnée pour commencer.
La loyauté ça paye mais pas quand on en devient ridicule."
________________
Et hop un idiot de plus.
"21. Le 03 mars 2011, 20:51 par Axel Terizaki
Haha, l'explication sur le Deus Ex est juste pitoyable.
N'importe quel informaticien ne pourrait jamais croire à ce genre de connerie. C'est marrant comment GB et JulienC s'enfoncent alors qu'à la base ça ne devait même pas être de sa faute si la présentation était bidonnée pour commencer.
La loyauté ça paye mais pas quand on en devient ridicule."
________________
Et hop un idiot de plus.
Ce qui est marrant, c'est que tout parte d'un article sur un blog.
Un autre bloggeur lambda aurait fait la même chose, Gameblog s'en serait surement taper les rouleaux.
En cela, ils donnent d'eux-même du crédit à l'article de Raton.
Quand on vous dit que Raton fait peur aux enfants.
Sinon Erwan, tu serais pas consommateur de scantrad par hasard ? :D
Bon, puisqu'il va falloir que quelqu'un s'y colle, voici ma réponse à la réponse de Gameblog au post du raton, lui-même fait en réponse à divers agissements qui pourraient mettre en doute la légitimité de Gameblog.
Sur le cas Heavy Rain : Je crois pouvoir l'affirmer sans trop laisser de place à une quelconque spéculation, ce qui a choqué dans votre traitement, ce n'est pas votre opinion sur le titre, dont je ne doute pas qu'elle était sincère, mais plutôt le fait que Gameblog ait participé activement à la campagne marketing de Heavy Rain. Et ne venez pas me dire que c'est une banale vente d'espace publicitaire comme en font tous les sites, parce que ni Gamekult ni JeuxVideo.com n'ont affiché d'espace publi-rédactionnel vantant les mérites du jeu http://www.gameblog.fr/heavyrain.ph...
Sur IG : Il me semble qu'écrire des textes dans un magazine, même si ce sont des reproductions d'articles déjà publiés, c'est travailler sur le rédactionnel.
Sur la course à l'audimat : Certes, le titre de l'article sur Bioshock 2 que raton cite dans l'article était une citation. Il reste quand même que vous avez trouvé approprié de citer l'expression "putain de sodomites" dans le titre de votre news.
Puisque l'heure est aux gâteaux, je n'irai pas plus loin dans ma réponse à cette réponse. Mais devant le manque d'explication de ces quelques points de contention, je vais devoir rejoindre l'avis du gérant de ces lieux quand à l'état de votre publication.
Il y avait sans doute des erreurs dans l'article de ce site, mais n'empeche que le probleme reste le meme Gameblog n'est qu'un site fondé par un mec démago et egocentrique qui se prend pour un très grand dans le milieu (les fanboys lui donnent raison en meme temps) j'ai commencé a suivre le site début 2010 et en un an j'ai jamais vu une evolution aussi rapide, malheureusement une évolution n'est pas positive et le bilan est est négatif en ce qui me concerne départ de de rédacteurs cools mise en avant de Traz (pitié ferme ta g*eule pdt les podcats) mais surtout de Salomé, (niaise comme pas possible et je vais m'arreter là..) article racoleurs ou a titres vulgaires, autocongratulations sur les chiffres d'audience mais pourtant ils sont toujours en train de mendier des abonnement premiums, étrange quand meme et ce pourquoi je connais pas leur situation mais ayant écouté leur passé et ayant vu l'appart de Julo et de Julien (qui sont surement des aparts parisiens donc cher le loyer) sur leur blog ça m'étonnerait qu'ils soient tellement dans le besoin que ça bref le site a grossi s'est diversifié mais c'est pas pour le meilleur et quand je n'y retourne que rarement, c'est pour voir des trucs LA Noire : On y a joué, ok t'es gentil comme pas mal de monde dans le milieu donc bon ...c'est toute un style d'écriture, toute une ligne éditoriale qu'il faudrait changer parce que plus ils avancent et plus ils s'enfoncent
Donc Gameblog et sa redaction, c'est Julo, JulienC, Trazom et RaHaN. Quid de Faskil, Peav', Cony, Salomé, TigerSuplex et tout le reste de l'équipe qui ne figure pas en signature ? Est t'il besoin de rappeler au quatuor qu'une rédaction n'est pas représenté par sa haute hiérarchie mais par tout ses membres, ou alors au lieu de parler de rédaction on parle de certain membres.
Enfin bref droit de réponse nébuleux, on explique aux gens ce qu'il faut entendre, sans aucune preuve tangible (la pub, vous pourrez dire tant que vous voulez que Gameblog n'a aucune emprise dessus, vous la diffusez quand même hein)
"C'est un incident lié au fait que plusieurs appareils étaient reliés au même écran par commodité, et qu'une commutation éclair "
Non mais MDR quoi, petit accident ou pas je me demande comment une barre d'un player aurait pu se foutre en priorité d'affichage sans le reste du logiciel du player (donc la vrai vidéo que ce player devait sans doute faire tourner). Z'ont pas un gars qui s'y connait un peu en informatique pour leur expliquer ??
David Cage c'est que du Blabla, pourquoi ce blog est t'il comme par hasard inutilisé par Mr Cage depuis la sortie d'Heavy Rain ?
Enfin ça tourne toujours au même cinéma, les blogs sont indépendant jusqu'à ce qu'une info nous intéresse (combien de news écrite en re-pompant ce qu'un bloggeur avait posté, avec un petit remerciement, par contre gg le travail "pro"). On se retrouve avec le damage-control que si 80% des post de blog sont des photo de cul, c'est pas à la rédaction de redirigé les bloggeur vers des sentiers plus sain, après tout on paye des serveur pour stocker tout cela, on est trop brave on va pas les embêter !
Une question que je me pose, c'est jusqu'où ils sont protégés par la loi si un jour un mec balance une plainte pour un contenu diffusé via un blog ?
En tous cas gros pavet pour les guillemets oubliés (pas très malin de ta part Raton, maintenant ils ont de quoi discréditer toute l'essence même du problème de ce genre de news)
Toutes les critiques énoncées sont de la pure connerie. VOUS PARLEZ SANS SAVOIR, VOUS ÊTES DES IDIOTS
Des gars qui perdent leurs temps, et leurs vie accessoirement à débiter des tissus de mensonges.
"Ce n'est que du jeux video" je n'ai jamais compris cette phrase : le jeu video c'est une passion pour certains j'y joue depuis plus de 20 ans c'est pas que du jeu video. Un jeu video comme Dead Space 2 c'est 2 millions de copies à 50€ minimum soit 100 millions de brouzoufs (ouais je suis bon maths) et j'utilise pas l'exemple de COD (car ce n'est pas un jeu ? :jokeagain:), tout ça pour dire que le JV ça a de l'importance pour certains et que ce secteur devrait etre traité avec le respect qu'il mérite... pour le melange des genres (donc à ne pas prendre au premier degré) quand on voit ce qui c'est passé avec Nelson Monfort on se dit que...
"Dans notre histoire, chaque mouvement ou manifeste à planté son drapeau sur une petite zone, tout en proclamant que c'etait la SEULE digne d'être exploité.".
Scott McCloud - L'art invisible
A part ça, je me suis déjà exprimé sur l'article précédent, mais me réjouis déjà de suivre les discution qui vont venir en commentaire.
*mange du pop-corn*
@Erwan : Te taire est donc une option plausible
30. Le 03 mars 2011, 20:57 par MDR
Donc Gameblog et sa redaction, c'est Julo, JulienC, Trazom et RaHaN. Quid de Faskil, Peav', Cony, Salomé, TigerSuplex
______
Un idiot de plus, ça fait 4.
Julo, JulienC, Trazom et RaHaN sont les fondateurs. Les autres sont pigistes.
Encore un mec qui parle sans savoir, preuve flagrante de votre putain de connerie de merde.
Dis voir, faut te fournir des liens, encore pour ton droit de réponse, Raton ?
Parceque bon, j'ai ça en stock, si tu veux :
LA NEWS : http://www.gameblog.fr/news_18446_n...
LA VERITE : http://www.gameblog.fr/forum/topic/...
Je me souviens que j'avais quand même bien halluciné, ce jour là ...
http://images1.memegenerator.net/Im...
"Toutes les critiques énoncées sont de la pure connerie. VOUS PARLEZ SANS SAVOIR, VOUS ÊTES DES IDIOTS
Des gars qui perdent leurs temps, et leurs vie accessoirement à débiter des tissus de mensonges."
je sais que je ne fait que me répéter, mais plutôt que d'insulter les gens, pourrait tu développer un peu plus,, ça éviterait peut être que l'on perde du temps et mieux souligné les erreur
il est aussi dommage que tu n'ai pas intervenu pour remettre les chose dans le droit chemin dans l'article d'origine. Il est dommageable d'arrivé à la fin d'une bataille pour faire la morale
Le 03 mars 2011, 20:58 par Erwan
Toutes les critiques énoncées sont de la pure connerie. VOUS PARLEZ SANS SAVOIR, VOUS ÊTES DES IDIOTS
Des gars qui perdent leurs temps, et leurs vie accessoirement à débiter des tissus de mensonges.
Et tu perds le tiens à rester ici. Tu peux disposer.
"36. Le 03 mars 2011, 21:00 par Sly
Dis voir, faut te fournir des liens, encore pour ton droit de réponse, Raton ?
Parceque bon, j'ai ça en stock, si tu veux :
LA NEWS : http://www.gameblog.fr/news_18446_n...
LA VERITE : http://www.gameblog.fr/forum/topic/..."
_______________
T'as toujours pas compris que ce lorenzo est un vaste imposteur qui c'est inscrit sur le site de gameblog juste pour mettre le doute ?
@Lux: ca n'empêche pas qu'on est complètement dans le domaine de l'amusement. Le jeu vidéo en soi reste quelque chose d'encore totalement léger et de frais. Bien que ce soit aujourd'hui une énorme industrie, tentons de garder ce sentiment enfantin de naiveté, d'innocence et d'émerveillement que dégage le jeu vidéo au lieu débattre sur des sujets à la con qui ne servent à strictement à rien, à part à se sentir plus intelligent que le voisin.
Hahahaha, non j'ai rien à dire sur le fond ou la forme, c'est juste pour dire qu'Erwan est un gars super rigolo et que franchement, on en aurait un peu plus sur le net on rigolerait tous les jours.
Donc, pour le bien de mes zygomatiques, Erwan..... Merci \o/
38. Le 03 mars 2011, 21:03 par Choco
Le 03 mars 2011, 20:58 par Erwan
Toutes les critiques énoncées sont de la pure connerie. VOUS PARLEZ SANS SAVOIR, VOUS ÊTES DES IDIOTS
Des gars qui perdent leurs temps, et leurs vie accessoirement à débiter des tissus de mensonges.
Et tu perds le tiens à rester ici. Tu peux disposer.
________
Non.
Erwan, t'es gentil, tu sais ?
Date du poste de Lorenzo Lamas : "Posté 06 octobre 2010 - 12:47"
Date d'inscription : # Inscrit(e) : 05-mars 09
Moi aussi, je ne suis qu'un idiot, ne t'inquiète pas :)
@Erwan : Excuse-moi, mais je crois qu'un pigiste est un membre d'une rédaction, je me trompe ? Et je comprend pas trop ce que tu essaye de m'expliquer : Julo, JC, trazom et Rahan ne sont que fondateur ? Donc ils font pas partie de la rédaction ? intéressant...
Non mais de base le droit de réponse est fantastique dans le PRINCIPE. Donc Gameblog.fr, site aux millions de pages vues, summum du site vidéoludique, les rois du pétrole, prouvent devant tout le monde qu'ils se chient dessus devant... raton laveur ? Bon ok à la limite, si ils veulent hein, c'est pas comme si ils avaient mieux à foutre de leurs journées et de leur boulot.
Mais ensuite là où c'est fantastique c'est quand on se demande envers qui le droit de réponse est adressé. Envers leurs fans ? Bah ils seront d'accord sur tout et en désaccord total avec raton de base. Envers les mecs qui peuvent pas les blairer ? Bah on rejettera tout parce qu'on voit de manière évidente que c'est de la bullshiterie et de toute façon on peut pas les saquer alors pourquoi ça changerait.
C'est presque déprimant. Ils auraient du, pour en sortir un peu grandi, en avoir vraiment rien à foutre et laisser le truc se dérouler. Mais non à la place, ils en font un truc énorme. Touchés par leur orgueil, ils tentent de se défendre auprès de types qui ont plus rien à foutre de leur gueule. C'est pas professionnel ça. C'est juste giga bênet.
Moi je suis triste parce que c'était rigolo quand ça parlait de gateaux, mais là non, c'est juste quatre mecs qui aiment pas qu'on disent du mal d'eux sur le net et qui se sentent obligés de réagir pour que dalle alors que rien n'oblige ça, comme Punky Boy quand je trolle sur PSB dans l'article d'avant.
ILS SONT OU LES GATEAUX PUTAIN ? ILS SONT OU ?
Gameblog, le site qui aime les bits s'illustre en images.
En réponse à : « Le blog des rédacteurs, le blog de La Rédaction, et le blog de ses proches collaborateurs comme Cyril Drevet sont des pans tout à fait différents du fil d'actualité, qui agglomère news, articles, vidéos, dossiers, podcasts, etc. publiés par le site. Ils sont d'ailleurs désormais séparés en Home. En tant que blogs, ils sont personnels et ne relèvent pas de la ligne éditoriale du site. » Je comprend pas là, il y a bien une sélection sur cette « home », en quoi cela ne relève t'il pas de la ligne éditoriale ?
Je suis déçu, on nous promets des gateaux depuis deux jours... et voilà que GameBlog n'a que deux cupcakes pas assez cuits à nous offrir. Desu desu desu.
Non, clairement, comme dit au-dessus, la réponse de GB est complètement hors sujet et évite aussi bien le fond que la remise en cause : avoir toujours une bonne excuse, ne jamais rien reconnaitre et stigmatiser chacun des exemples choisis, on ne peut pas dire que ça soit une façon éclatante de se défendre...
"41. Le 03 mars 2011, 21:06 par Johnny
Hahahaha, non j'ai rien à dire sur le fond ou la forme, c'est juste pour dire qu'Erwan est un gars super rigolo et que franchement, on en aurait un peu plus sur le net on rigolerait tous les jours.
Donc, pour le bien de mes zygomatiques, Erwan..... Merci \o/"
__________
De rien, c'est un plaisir de vous amuser, de vous donner votre dose de rigolade qui doit être si rare dans vos vies de frustré de la vie :)
@Rain : Malheureusement, les sous vs ton argumentation, ce sont les sous qui gagnent. Je comprends ce que tu veux dire : loisir, amusement, bonne ambiance, émerveillement, oui ce sont aussi des valeurs qui me tiennent à coeur, sauf que d'une comme je l'ai dit les jeux vidéo brassent mass thunes, et de deux ils sont chers. Y'a donc une responsabilité à avoir quand on est journaliste et qu'on doit traiter l'actu de jeux à 60 boules voire plus.
Ces questions sont donc importantes, même si on peut trouver qu'il est plus intéressant de partager ses coups de coeur, que c'est plus positif, etc. Bien sûr que c'est plus sympa et plus agréable, mais parfois il y a des jours ou l'on considère que des points doivent être mis sur des i... Et ce même à propos de loisirs et d"'art".
Gameblog me déçoivent ,ils auraient pu faire leur droit de réponse sur le site. .. .Vous avez peur du Raton ? ^__^
Pour les Kik00s,Raton viens de vous donner l'apéritif de 17h car je pense qu'il y a une idée en tête et un lieu précis * Elysée*
Le soucis de Gameblog,ils ont pris la grosse tête ..Elle était loin l'époque de Joypad,Tilt,Console + .... à part PES et Call of ... ,le jeux vidéo est Goblament mort !
@Erwan: Hmmm...Toi être un Happiste ? o_O Elfassi va bien ? Non plus sérieusement quitte cette page,éteins ton ordinateur et va faire un truc intelligent comme .....Dormir
Car tes propres commentaires me font rire ... Retourne d’où tu viens ,jeune homme! et ps: il est l'heure d'allez dormir car il est 21h :onch:
"44. Le 03 mars 2011, 21:07 par MDR
@Erwan : Excuse-moi, mais je crois qu'un pigiste est un membre d'une rédaction, je me trompe ? Et je comprend pas trop ce que tu essaye de m'expliquer : Julo, JC, trazom et Rahan ne sont que fondateur ? Donc ils font pas partie de la rédaction ? intéressant..."
_______
Je crois que tu confirme ton idiotie :rire:
Ok. Ils ont répondu au billet de Raton en se justifiant sur certains points avec plus ou moins de pertinance, tant mieux pour eux. Ils règlent des questions de forme.
Mais en ce qui me concerne, ancien visiteur de Gameblog, ça ne change strictement rien à mon opinion sur leur ligne éditoriale que je trouve franchement pathétique. Entre news people, interview de pornstar, news bidons (je n'oublierais pas le coup d'autonomie de la NGP qui n'était que l'horloge!), starification de la rédac', humour caca-pipi (Kendy)... C'est simple Gameblog représente tout ce que je déteste dans la presse. De l'artifice, de l'égotisme, de la putasserie, tout ça pour vendre notre temps de cerveau disponible aux annonceurs. Ils ne sont pas les seuls à faire ça, mais dans ce domaine ils le font bien.
Au moins ils ont compris que leur entreprise de nivellement par le bas de la presse vidéoludique ne pouvait pas plaire à tout le monde: "Nous savons ce qu'est notre ligne éditoriale, ses spécificités, et vers où nous désirons l'emmener. Et ce choix nous appartient. Libre à chacun de l'apprécier ou non."
"50. Le 03 mars 2011, 21:10 par max abitol
Gameblog me déçoivent ,ils auraient pu faire leur droit de réponse sur le site. .. .Vous avez peur du Raton ? ^__^
Pour les Kik00s,Raton viens de vous donner l'apéritif de 17h car je pense qu'il y a une idée en tête et un lieu précis * Elysée*
Le soucis de Gameblog,ils ont pris la grosse tête ..Elle était loin l'époque de Joypad,Tilt,Console + .... à part PES et Call of ... ,le jeux vidéo est Goblament mort !
@Erwan: Hmmm...Toi être un Happiste ? o_O Elfassi va bien ? Non plus sérieusement quitte cette page,éteins ton ordinateur et va faire un truc intelligent comme .....Dormir
Car tes propres commentaires me font rire ... Retourne d’où tu viens ,jeune homme! et ps: il est l'heure d'allez dormir car il est 21h :onch:"
________________
:hap:
52. Le 03 mars 2011, 21:11 par BigDaddy
Ok. Ils ont répondu au billet de Raton en se justifiant sur certains points avec plus ou moins de pertinance, tant mieux pour eux. Ils règlent des questions de forme.
Mais en ce qui me concerne, ancien visiteur de Gameblog, ça ne change strictement rien à mon opinion sur leur ligne éditoriale que je trouve franchement pathétique. Entre news people, interview de pornstar, news bidons (je n'oublierais pas le coup d'autonomie de la NGP qui n'était que l'horloge!), starification de la rédac', humour caca-pipi (Kendy)... C'est simple Gameblog représente tout ce que je déteste dans la presse. De l'artifice, de l'égotisme, de la putasserie, tout ça pour vendre notre temps de cerveau disponible aux annonceurs. Ils ne sont pas les seuls à faire ça, mais dans ce domaine ils le font bien.
Au moins ils ont compris que leur entreprise de nivellement par le bas de la presse vidéoludique ne pouvait pas plaire à tout le monde: "Nous savons ce qu'est notre ligne éditoriale, ses spécificités, et vers où nous désirons l'emmener. Et ce choix nous appartient. Libre à chacun de l'apprécier ou non."
___________
Elle est ou l'interview de la pornstar ?
:rire:
encore un idiot.
http://images2.memegenerator.net/Im...
@Erwan: Retourne sur le 15-18 . Ici t'a pas l'âge ! Ah oui 2D ou 3D ? :)
Hey Erwan, c'est toi le Premium formule Soutien (ceux qui ont une soirée chez Gameblog et un T-Shirt) sur Gameblog ? http://www.gameblog.fr/forum/user/9...
@Erwan tu perd ton temps à commenter ici tu vois bien que ce thread est complètement orienté bourré de pseudo d'aprentit-journalistes sur wordpress qui ne rêvent que d'une choses c'est lyncher JulienC .
Au délà de ça la passion a bon dos mais les joueurs qui parlent ici font juste honte voire même peur vu le niveau de fièle qu'il peuvent déverser sur tout ce qui s'opposent à leurs opinions.
@Lux: Je peux comprendre ^^
Erwan, tu trolles tellement mal que tu es une honte pour n'importe quel Hapiste de 15 ans ! =D
Don't fées the troll, Erwan n'est la que pour faire une embrouille j'ai l'impression, chacun peut avoir son opinion sur le droit de réponse de Gb.
Sinon ça reste un droit de réponse (ORLY) ils allaient pas dire que GB c'est mal, sinon je suis d'accord avec BigbossFF, ils ne font que corriger les fautes et c'est bien dommage.
Puis ils peuvent très bien mentir (/mode paranoïa), on n'est pas sur à 100% de ce qu'ils disent (et l'inverse est aussi vrai pour le Raton-laveur, pour éviter de me traiter de troll anti-GB), et bon, la manipulation existe énormément dans le milieu journalistique (je me souviens bien qu'un certain webmaster (qui se reconnaitra) a virer des personnes car ils ont ouverts leurs bouges et il a fait passé ça en leur disant qu'ils donnaient des propositions sur le site mais qu'il a refusé et qu'ils de sont barrés... Bref).
Par contre comme beaucoup de gens je trouve L'explication su l'avant-premiers de deus ex plus que douteuse.
C'est balo quand même.
- Pas un mot sur les news à titre racoleur montré du doigts pour faire du clic. Après tout, Gameblog paye Free Zone pour qu'il trouve des annonceurs, mais rien n'empeche Gameblog "d'aider" cette régie en fournissant un maximum de données positive qu'ils pourront utiliser.
- J'aimerais également savoir si Gamekult fait appel à une régie externe également. Parce que si c'est le cas, l'argument du "on n'influence en rien sur les pubs de notre site" aura vachement moins de portée
Encore une fois, j'étais à la dite présentation de Deus Ex et personne autour de moi dans le public n'as cru à la véracité de cette présentation. Mais bon, si Gameblog dit le contraire ;)
@Erwan :
Toi je te love d'amour fort, d'amour vré. T'est pas une de ces grosses tapettes de modérés au langage châtié.
Allez vieng, on vas vider des choppes et se mettre la langue dans les narines.
58. Le 03 mars 2011, 21:15 par Facepalm
@Erwan tu perd ton temps à commenter ici tu vois bien que ce thread est complètement orienté bourré de pseudo d'aprentit-journalistes sur wordpress qui ne rêvent que d'une choses c'est lyncher JulienC .
Au délà de ça la passion a bon dos mais les joueurs qui parlent ici font juste honte voire même peur vu le niveau de fièle qu'il peuvent déverser sur tout ce qui s'opposent à leurs opinions.
______
Je ne fait que démontrer leur bêtise ;)
Lol, Erwan sur Gameblog
Amis : RaHaN - Julo - JulienC - Poufy ... et c'est tout :)
Je comprends mieux maintenant sa quête ici même !
En revanche, Trazom doit être franchement déçu de ne pas l'avoir comme ami !
"57. Le 03 mars 2011, 21:14 par Raton-Laveur
Hey Erwan, c'est toi le Premium formule Soutien (ceux qui ont une soirée chez Gameblog et un T-Shirt) sur Gameblog ? http://www.gameblog.fr/forum/user/9..."
Non, je suis ton père.
Pour le fun et juste pour remettre un peu d'ambiance : après le "ce n'est que du cinema", le "ce n'est que du JV" allons nous avoir droit un jour au "ce n'est que de la littérature"?
le JV c'est vraiment un truc de niche en fait, on peut donc se dire pro et faire n'importe quoi j'imagine ?
Personnellement je fais le choix de cotoyer des gens pas pro mais sympa (je remercie d'ailleurs l'equipe du site grace à laquelle j'ai decouvert l'article de raton)
tu ne fait rien que des copier coller, Erwan.
@Facepalm ;@Erwan: VOUS PERDEZ VOTRE TEMPS !!! :DrWho:
Ca devient clairement pitoyable cette histoire.
Oh les nazis et les russes va falloir se calmer, on se met sur la gueule sur BlackOps et c'est fini... Vraiment, écrire tant de merde (des deux côtés) c'est n'avoir aucune conscience écologique. AUCUNE.
66. Le 03 mars 2011, 21:18 par Sly
Lol, Erwan sur Gameblog
Amis : RaHaN - Julo - JulienC - Poufy ... et c'est tout :)
Je comprends mieux maintenant sa quête ici même !
En revanche, Trazom doit être franchement déçu de ne pas l'avoir comme ami !
________
tu confirme ta connerie, je ne suis ce erwan, non mais y a un sacré paquet d'idiots ici, c'est énorme :rire:
ton père Noël ? :p
@Erwan: Même Kendy pue la merde,pour toi .mais sérieusement éteinds ton ordi comme ça tu feras moins de dégâts ... Serait-tu le Fils illégitime de Marie Claire Raskin :D
Elle est ou l'interview de la pornstar ?
:rire:
encore un idiot.
http://www.gameblog.fr/news_19552_k...
Ah oui, c'est pas pornstar, c'est "actrice de charme"
Au faite le Kik00 happiste même que les autres le mettent de côtés,tu vas répondre à ma question : 2D ou 3D ?
76. Le 03 mars 2011, 21:22 par my2centsOfPorn
Elle est ou l'interview de la pornstar ?
:rire:
encore un idiot.
http://www.gameblog.fr/news_19552_k...
Ah oui, c'est pas pornstar, c'est "actrice de charme"
__________
c 'est pas une interview mais un teaser.
ahahah encore un idiot.
Ouais, comme dit au-dessus, l'indépendance des régies pub, il y a de quoi doucement rigoler. Les rédacteurs ne s'occupent pas de la pub, mais les deux boites sont intimement liées et totalement dépendantes l'une de l'autre : difficile de ne pas imaginer qu'il y ait jamais de coups de fil entre les deux... Ou alors faudrait m'expliquer comment ça se fait que JeuxActu soit systématiquement mis en avant sur les pubs-affiches du métro :s.
droit de réponse pourri .
On nie les faits sans apporter aucune preuve, tout ceux qui étaient à la présentation de deus EX savent que c'etait pipeau mais bon.
Au final, je note que le droit de réponse ne parle pas du fait que Julien C a touché du fric pour cette fameuse présentation pipeau.
77. Le 03 mars 2011, 21:24 par max abitol
Au faite le Kik00 happiste même que les autres le mettent de côtés,tu vas répondre à ma question : 2D ou 3D ?
_____
Je préfère les jeux 1D
"Indé"
Indépendant quoi ;)
@Erwan
et des gens autour de toi qui ne sont pas des idiots ça existe dans ton monde ?
"79. Le 03 mars 2011, 21:25 par Haru
Ouais, comme dit au-dessus, l'indépendance des régies pub, il y a de quoi doucement rigoler. Les rédacteurs ne s'occupent pas de la pub, mais les deux boites sont intimement liées et totalement dépendantes l'une de l'autre : difficile de ne pas imaginer qu'il y ait jamais de coups de fil entre les deux... Ou alors faudrait m'expliquer comment ça se fait que JeuxActu soit systématiquement mis en avant sur les pubs-affiches du métro :s."
Entièrement faux, tu parles sans savoir.
95% de conneries en 70 commentaires ça fait beaucoup je trouve.
@Erwan: O___O ' Cours ... Cours ... ici tu est dans le cercle des pures Otaku et vu que je t'ai filé une question Sérieuse,tu me réponds par de la merde..... 2D ou 3D ,et réponds correctement ! le 1D n'existe pas ,le Kik00 !
82. Le 03 mars 2011, 21:26 par Corsaire
@Erwan
et des gens autour de toi qui ne sont pas des idiots ça existe dans ton monde ?
_________
Oui, sauf ici apparemment.
83. Le 03 mars 2011, 21:27 par Erwan
Entièrement faux, tu parles sans savoir.
95% de conneries en 70 commentaires ça fait beaucoup je trouve.
--------------
Mec, je bosse chez un concurrent de GameBlog. Je ne sais que trop bien.
"84. Le 03 mars 2011, 21:28 par max abitol
@Erwan: O___O ' Cours ... Cours ... ici tu est dans le cercle des pures Otaku et vu que je t'ai filé une question Sérieuse,tu me réponds par de la merde..... 2D ou 3D ,et réponds correctement ! le 1D n'existe pas ,le Kik00 !"
______
les jeux en XD c'est le top.
J'espère secrètement que Deux Ex soit une grosse daube (non, j'déconne, j'attends trop ce jeu) pour voir de quelle manière ils vont s'en sortir pour remercier les différents arrangements avec Square (présentation sur scène, blog de Eidos Montreal, les posters dédicacés, etc etc)
Ptêt qu'ils vont faire comme avec Crasher, ils vont pas tester le jeu pour pas en dire du mal :D
"Je ne fait que démontrer leur bêtise ;)"
Ton comptage d'idiots supposés est une démonstration sublime. Mais peut-être ne connais-tu simplement pas le sens de "démontrer"?
http://www.linternaute.com/dictionn...
Tu te coucheras moins bête (et c'était pas gagné...)
@ErWan; Et Comment te dire ...... Ah oui! ON S'EN BRANLE DE TA VIE !
87. Le 03 mars 2011, 21:29 par Erwan
Je suis le vrai Erwan, bande d'idiot !
Je suis le vrai Erwan ! Tu parle sans savoir !
91. Le 03 mars 2011, 21:30 par max abitol
@ErWan; Et Comment te dire ...... Ah oui! ON S'EN BRANLE DE TA VIE !
_____
Apparemment non ;)
ahah j'avoue que pour crasher ils font encore bien pitié, ils ont toujours pas testés le jeu (parce qu'ils savent que c'est une daube ) mais par contre ils ont bien su en parlé quand l'éditeur a baissé le prix du jeu.
Bon on zappe ce Erwan qui n'est que trop heureux de son heure de gloire et on se recentre ? ;p
Un beau communiqué rappelant tout ce qui me dégoûte dans la politique. Et rien sur la collusion des gens ? Le fait de tapiner pour des éditeurs alors qu'on se dit journaliste ?
tiens c'est bizarre Pouffy parlait comme ça!! Bon sang les HK ont encore envahis le monde de faux-pseudo :)
Non mais Crasher, c'est Pia, c'est le genre de truc qu'on oublie vite et qu'il ne faut surtout pas ressortir !!!
Non mais sérieux, lancer un reportage mensuel sur la création d'un jeu pour finalement ne même pas tester un des jeux de la boite avec qui on a créée l'idée, c'est à la fois comique, triste parce que irrespectueux et tellement Gameblog à la fois...
Hmm je vois qu'il y a un fanboy gameblog dans les rangs.
"Bouuh, vous dites du mal de gameblog"
Bon Erwan,va te coucher ,au lieu de marquer des conneries !
Mouhahahahahaha, ça part trop en cacahouète, on sait plus qui parle, dans quel but, pour défendre (mal) on sait plus qui...
Franchement, en tant qu'observateur extérieur, c'est beau :')
Ça devient un grand n'importe quoi. C'est excellent, continuez !
Erwan me fait penser à cette image, dur pour l'équipe de Gameblog
http://idata.over-blog.com/3/88/02/...
@ Erwan :
Des types comme toi, Erwan, y'en avait plein sur les sites tunisiens. Ils étaeint payés par le régime de Ben Ali afin de faire de la propagande absurde sur les forums et les commentaires des sites internet des grands journaux. Ou bien, ils étaient payés pour troller, afin de désamorcer tout débat de fond. Pendant la révolution tunisienne, ces mecs là ont même étés jusqu'à occuper le net français.
Et tu sais quoi ? Ces mecs là sont bien plus intelligents que toi. Parce que EUX, ils étaient payés pour faire ce boulot ! ;)
Or... Julien Chièze te paye t-il pour faire la même chose ? Il t'as promis quoi ? Un paquet de Pepitio ? De Choco BN ? Mieux... un abonnement Prenium Soutien Massage de la Prostate ? :p
Donc toute la pub autour d'Heavy Rain n'est que le fait d'une régie externe?
Cette pub sur cette page d'un podcast:
http://www.gameblog.fr/podcast_137_...
ou celle ci dans la rue:
http://publigeekaire.com/wp-content...
c'est également le fait de cette régie, rien à voir avec Gameblog? Faudrait peut-être arrêterla comédie.
Nous êtres des Idiots ,mais toi Roi des Abrutis Erwan !
Ok donc Gameblog ne répond pas du tout sur le vrai sujet ici qui est en gros : "Gameblog est le morandini du jeu vidéo" (et c'est ce que je pense). Ils discutent sur tel ou tel truc, ouais, mais le vrai fond, que dalle. Ils disent qu'ils savent où aller avec leur ligne éditoriale, ce que je comprends c'est "on revendique nos news à clic avec titres à 2 balles et rien dans la news". Bah c'est bien triste !
Gameblog va donc bien continuer à être le site morandini du jeu vidéo...
mais preuve qu'il y a bien un mal être chez eux: ils font un droit de réponse. Alors que, comme dit au dessus, ils auraient tres bien pu s'en foutre.Je lis souvent les commentaires de leurs news et c'est souvent qu'il y a des gens qui se plaignent des news à clic sans rien dedans. Et s'ils ont pris bien le temps de tous répondre et tout, c'est que ça doit bien les toucher. Et pour ça, merci à ce blog d'avoir dit tout haut ce que plein de gens pensent tout bas.
121. Le 03 mars 2011, 21:44 par Shash
Ok donc Gameblog ne répond pas du tout sur le vrai sujet ici qui est en gros : "Gameblog est le morandini du jeu vidéo" (et c'est ce que je pense). Ils discutent sur tel ou tel truc,
"ouais, mais le vrai fond, que dalle."
_________
Faux : http://www.gameblog.fr/news_20870_v...
Toi être aveugle, OUVRE TES YEUX
"120. Le 03 mars 2011, 21:43 par max abitol
Nous êtres des Idiots ,mais toi Roi des Abrutis Erwan !"
__________
Non.
Erwan: Toi fermez ta gueule ! et va dormir le Kévin !
NON !
Jeune Pomme ? Non tu m'insulte là ! Pigeon !
c'est toi qui viens foutre la merde avec des 45.000pseudo et tu ose de me dire poli .. Et encore là,je suis sympa car il y en a ,ils feront un plaisir de te pourrir !!
Calme toi l'enfant et retourne sur ton site !
@max abitol : Sans déconner, arrête de répondre à ses interventions. Tu seras bien urbain.
@Clémentine: oui,je vais me retenir mais bon ...
Ce débat a le mérite d'exister.
Erwan, sa te dit de la fermer ? Merci.
Donne moi ton numéro
135. Le 03 mars 2011, 21:54 par ErwanLeC-N
Erwan, sa te dit de la fermer ? Merci.
NON.
L'heure n'est pas au gâteau.
Erwan t'es juste priceless, on t'aime.
Raton passe à la Radio ! On est 30 à pomper la bande passante :p http://www.gameradio.fr/playergamer...
Merci :)
Erwan,L'homme aux 42 personnalités !
De toute façon je suis trooooop con !
Erwan: Pour une fois qu'une phrase correcte sort de ta bouche
Citation de Erwan :"De toute façon je suis trooooop con !"
Ce que je trouve dommage, c'est qu'à défaut de "droit de réponse", on se retrouve avec des justifications plus que bancales (l'histoire de la barre Windows Media Player est juste grotesque pour quiconque sait un tant soit peu se servir d'un PC). Quand aux justifications sur les problemes de fond (a savoir le sensationnalisme et le raccolagedans un objectif de chasse à l'audimat, le clientèlisme et la démagogie le manque flagrant d'indépendance quand au contenu du site) on a droit soit a des justifications vaseuses (cf la réponse sur la Wii Hifi), soit a des banalités consternantes (cf les réponses concernant la boite de prod' de JC) voire pire encore, jouent sur les mots en pointant du doigt l'absence de guillements sur le LIEN plutot que sur le titre et l'expression incriminée...
Bref, on se retrouve avec un pavé indigeste qui préfère tenter de noyer le poisson sous une avalanche d'excuses et justifications oiseuses plutot que de tenter de répondre (comme aurait pu le laisser entendre le titre : "droit de réponse") au fond du problème exposé, à savoir la ligne éditoriale en constante régression, la recherche constante du sensationnalisme à la manière du premier torchon people venu, le clientèlisme flagrant du sieur JulienC dont la situation, dans certains milieux plus règlementés que la presse spécialisée tomberait sous le coup du conflit d'intérets (monter une boite de com' et d'évènementiel autour du jeu vidéo alors qu'on est sois même fondateur et "éminence grise" d'un site d'actu... de jeux vidéos)
Quand à l'ami Erwan, je trouves limite triste que tu ne sois pas CE Erwan, soutien premium a 70 boules... J'aurais pu comprendre ton trolling si tu avais eut besoin de justifier tes Euros naivement dépensés... (nan parce Mais là, ca veut dire que ta bêtise est juste... gratuite... c'est triste...
C'est fini ?
Attention, tout n'est pas a jeter dans ce qu'il dit hein, la réponse quand a l'interprétation de l'interview en rapport avec Gamekult est parfaitement justifiée, la gestion de la régie publicitaire (bien que l'affaire heavy rain reste parfaitement tendancieuse) sont des arguments parfaitements valables...
Mais ce que je regrette, c'est qu'a aucun moment, il ne réponds sur le fond, a savoir le raccolage constant, la démagogie grandissante et la vulgarisation/presse-people-isation (désolé du néologisme), bref, la ligne directrice que prends le site depuis quelques temps et qui est l'exact opposé de ce qui m'avait fait apprécier le site il y'a quelques temps...
Il est difficile de se remettre en question quand on a la tête qui ne passe plus les portes :(
@Erwan: n'oublie pas kendy et Angel chez les fondateurs
ce droit de réponse me donne une raison de plus d'être parti de ce site
le noyau dur de la communauté était bien gratiné aussi il y a 2 ans quand je suis parti
C'est tout de même marrant de voir JulienC essayer de s'approprier le meme "l'heure des gâteaux" pour pas passer pour un couillon aux yeux de tout le monde. Sympa comme stratégie, reste à savoir si il y en a qui vont se laisser avoir.
LA BITE LA BITE LA BITE
LE CUL LE CUL LE CUL.
En trois.
Valériane.
Dommage de vous faire avoir en nourrissant les trolls, c'était un sympathique article de Raton et un droit de réponse minable de JulienC.
142. Le 03 mars 2011, 21:57 par Maxobiwan
Raton passe à la Radio ! On est 30 à pomper la bande passante :p http://www.gameradio.fr/playergamer...
ça rame à donf...
Les idiots schizophrènes, c'est moe =D
Je soutiens Erwan. FOR GREAT JUSTICE !
par Erwan
"C'est fini ?"
Non.
Merci enfin quelqu'un de cohérent.
Conclusion de tout ça; les joueurs de jeux vidéos passent encore pour des imbéciles et des gamins qui se chamaillent pour rien (à voir ce fil de commentaires)... Désolant...
Ca me rend vraiment triste, on a l'impression d'être dans une cour de récréation...
Tu t'y connais en Moe en plus Suryce ! :D
157. Le 03 mars 2011, 22:18 par Corti
Je soutiens Erwan. FOR GREAT JUSTICE !
____________________
All your base are belong to us. You are on the way to destruction.
Encore une fois, le coup de GameKult, moi ça me choque, je m'auto-cite, désolé :
"Et bien moi, ça me choque. GameKult n'a émis qu'UN avis négatif sur UN produit de Sony, ce n'est pas une raison valable pour arrêter de diffuser des publicités de tous leurs autres produits et qui contribuent à la bonne santé du site."
http://www.raton-laveur.net/post/16...
Je pensais vraiment qu’à force de nourrir un troll, on pouvait atteindre un point de non retour, un point où l’on ne pouvait plus sortir du cercle vicieux, et bien tu viens de me prouver que c’est faux.
Bravo à toute l'équipe de Gameblog pour ce merveilleux droit de réponse.
On voit clairement où est le vrai du faux dans cette affaire avec telle quantité d'arguments.
Sérieusement. Un contre-argumentaire bourré d'excuses spécieusement bégueules, il fallait oser !
Une régie de pub externe ? En quoi cela les désolidarise-t-ils des choix marketing de cette dernière ?
Mais le problème vient surtout de certains titres, issus de grosses boites, qu'il faut ménager sous peine de ne plus recevoir les versions beta, d'être invités aux soirées de présentation et de test... Bref, de ne plus avoir l'info, si ce n'est avant, du moins en même temps que les autres. Imaginez un des cinq premiers sites français de JV qui ne serait pas convié à la soirée de présentation du prochain God of War !
Donc si l'argument n'est pas le bon, dans le fond, le problème est bien réel. Gameblog n'a pas de réel indépendance dans la mesure où le site ménage un peu le "salaryman et la bouteille de nihonshu"...
De même, les blogs sont solidaire du site (ou alors même le titre est mensonger ?!).
Depuis quand un site qui propose cette fonction n'en est pas responsable ?
La modération existe partout sauf sur Gameblog.fr ?
Un collaborateur, même sans être membre fondateur, qui montre sont haut degré d'évolution avec un blog de photo érotiques met clairement en cause la réputation du site.
Un peu comme si Clinton avait dit: "Mais foutait moi la paix, elle m'a sucé en dehors des heures de bureau..."
Quand à Cage, si ce n'était pas pour de la pub, pourquoi ne poste t-il plus depuis la sortie de son dernier bébé ?
Quand au coup des guillemets, c'est bien là un argument plus que fallacieux puisque la rédaction de Gameblog.fr se concentre sur la forme pour faire oublier le fond. Une tactique d'avocats marron !
L'article n'en est pas sensationnaliste et à peine digne d'un torchon people britannique...
Et que dire des multiples effets d'annonces du type "nous avons la NGP" ?
En tant que journalistes "sérieux", les membres de Gameblog.fr ne sont-ils pas sensés savoir que ce type de canular est réservé à la presse papier (et clairement pas en couverture), là où le nombre de clics et autres visiteurs uniques ne se comptabilisent pas ?
Il fût un temps, pas si lointain, où une jeune équipe de journaliste faisait partager sa passion aux joueurs français de tout âge via le magazine Joypad.
Un regard frais et exalté avec un ton décalé, avec humour et bonne humeur.
Des journalistes impartiaux qui traitaient leurs sujets avec d'autant plus de sérieux qu'internet n'étaient pas aussi riche que maintenant.
Mais... que sont-ils donc devenus ?
En tout cas, bravo et merci à toi, Raton Laveur, pour cet excellent article qui met clairement le doigt là où cela fait mal...
118. Le 03 mars 2011, 21:43 par BigBossFF
@ Erwan :
Des types comme toi, Erwan, y'en avait plein sur les sites tunisiens. Ils étaeint payés par le régime de Ben Ali afin de faire de la propagande absurde sur les forums et les commentaires des sites internet des grands journaux. Ou bien, ils étaient payés pour troller, afin de désamorcer tout débat de fond. Pendant la révolution tunisienne, ces mecs là ont même étés jusqu'à occuper le net français.
Et tu sais quoi ? Ces mecs là sont bien plus intelligents que toi. Parce que EUX, ils étaient payés pour faire ce boulot ! ;)
Or... Julien Chièze te paye t-il pour faire la même chose ? Il t'as promis quoi ? Un paquet de Pepitio ? De Choco BN ? Mieux... un abonnement Prenium Soutien Massage de la Prostate ? :p
_____________
:rire:
Mouais...
Raton donne son génial avis (Gameblog est le Morandini de l'actu JV) saupoudré de "preuves" et de citations plus ou moins tronquées. À vrai dire, il suffisait de cliquer sur les liens donnés par ce même Raton et de lire soi-même ce qui se disait pour voir ce qui était vrai ou faux.
Gameblog estime nécessaire de remettre à plat certains points, en étant plus ou moins convaincant. En prouvant que les preuves avancées par Raton sont discutables, JulienC n'estime apparemment pas nécessaire d'argumenter que Gameblog, c'est pas Morandini.
Totale perte de temps.
Oh, et des lecteurs qui ne savent pas lire. Ou qui font semblant de ne pas savoir. Des deux côtés.
Erwan : tu ne peux pas nier que les "news à clics" existent sur Gameblog (interview de Katsumi par exemple : absolument aucun intérêt vidéoludique sinon que d'attirer des hordes d'adolescent de 14 ans en chaleur).
Les autres : le Dieu Raton a effectivement - et je sais que ça va être très dur à croire - tronqué (ou très mal lu) certains passages qu'il utilise dans son billet (notamment le coup de Gameblog qui ne soutient pas Gamekult dans l'histoire avec Sony).
Ah mince. Re-perte de temps.
"Et les femmes dénudées ?
Vous trouvez ça normal, vraiment ?"
Merci Choco, je me posais la même question. Est-il possible d'avoir une réponse crédible?
C'est fatigant de lire tout ça, il y a au final bien trop de gens qui ne se fondent un avis que parce qu'ils veulent en avoir un.
Je suis Gameblog depuis leurs six mois, et bien que je n'ai jamais trop aimé Julien Chièze en tant qu'animateur, je trouve ça triste de voir qu'ils commencent à se prendre des scuds depuis que ça marche un peu.
Je vois beacoup de commentaires d'un certain Erwan, tu as ma sympathie mais je crois que tu t'essoufles pour rien, on est ici sur le site du propagateur et il semblerait que ses lecteurs aiment à hurler avec les loups.
On n'y peut rien, la plèbe aime à avoir une opinion. Pour ma part je continuerai à lire GB, à apprécier sa communauté, car je n'ai pas trouvé mieux.
Et tu as raison il n'y a pas mieux ;)
Y a plus personne ?
C'est l'heure du dodo.
Oui. Dodo. On a trouvé mieux, tout compte fait.
Glabouni, je crois que personne ici ne t'empêche de continuer de lire Gameblog...
Je suis ce site depuis autant de temps que toi et ses créateurs depuis leurs début dans la presse. J'ai toujours eu pour eux une grande sympathie, mais avec le temps, certaines choses ont changé et sont aux antipodes de ce qu'ils prétendent défendre.
Ce n'est pas une question de succés, même les projets naisants reçoivent des critiques négatives. La seule différence, c'est que peu de gens sont là pour le voir...
Ce fût le cas pour Gameblog à ses débuts et tout au longs de son histoire d'ailleurs, ce qui change, c'est qu'aujourd'hui, le site à pignon sur rue...
Quand au fait que la plèbe "aime à avoir un opinion", tu sous-entends donc que seul toi (et Erwan) et les têtes pensantes de Gameblog ont des opinions valables et les capactés d'en avoir.
Tant de condescendance pour si peu de laize...
Ca doit être ça.
Leur Népal: Yoga tau.
En revanche je vois un des derniers commentaires qui concerne le point des photos de nanas à poil, c'est vrai que c'est bien beauf, je n'ai jamais compris pourquoi ils laissaient MisterP publier ça.
"En revanche je vois un des derniers commentaires qui concerne le point des photos de nanas à poil, c'est vrai que c'est bien beauf, je n'ai jamais compris pourquoi ils laissaient MisterP publier ça."
_____
Toi t'es un frustré de la vie c'tout.
Gameblog est honnête et le restera.
Mon dieu je n'avais jamais vu autant de chibre avalé en une fois depuis ma glorieuse année 1972.
Chapeau Erwan.
Sinon c'est quoi gameblog ?
C'est le meilleur site de jeu vidéo en france, et dans quelques années, le plus influent de tous, (sans compter jv.com bien sur)
Merci GB, j'irais lire raton-laveur.net plus souvent ;-)
Comme autres exemples de "news à audimat" , j'ajouterais (si ce n'est pas encore fait) celle concernant l'autonomie de la future NGP de Sony :
http://www.gameblog.fr/news_20437_m...
L'auteur démontre d'ailleurs lui même l'absurdité de cette dernière, ligne 7~8.
Attention Erwan autant j'avais de la sympathie pour toi plus haut, autant là c'est vrai que tu n'es pas du tout constructif: des photos de modèles prépubères à poil n'ont rien à faire sur un site comme GB, honnête ou non. Il n'y a aucun lien avec la ligne éditoriale.
Et Dark si tu analyses mon commentaire tu remarqueras que ma condescendance (que j'admets) se tient puisque je n'ai pas exprimé mon opinion comme l'ont fait la plupart des gens, c'est-à-dire en caressant l'opposition goulûment ou en défendant l'orphelin par les pleurs. J'ai juste du mépris pour le débat inepte que perpétuent certains.
Je ne sais toujours pas quoi penser de l'intégrité de GB, mais je ne la trouve pas plus salie pour le moment qu'aucun autre site de jeux vidéo.
Attention Erwan autant j'avais de la sympathie pour toi plus haut, autant là c'est vrai que tu n'es pas du tout constructif: des photos de modèles prépubères à poil n'ont rien à faire sur un site comme GB, honnête ou non. Il n'y a aucun lien avec la ligne éditoriale.
Et Dark si tu analyses mon commentaire tu remarqueras que ma condescendance (que j'admets) se tient puisque je n'ai pas exprimé mon opinion comme l'ont fait la plupart des gens, c'est-à-dire en caressant l'opposition goulûment ou en défendant l'orphelin par les pleurs. J'ai juste du mépris pour le débat inepte que perpétuent certains.
Je ne sais toujours pas quoi penser de l'intégrité de GB, mais je ne la trouve pas plus salie pour le moment qu'aucun autre site de jeux vidéo.
Malgré un droit de réponse parfaitement argumenté et venant démontrer, point par point, l'absurdité de l'attaque, son inutilité, de Raton, on retrouve toujours les mêmes trolls qui, en guise de réaction, se demandent s'il est normal que le droit de réponse soit ici ou sur gameblog...
Les autres ne trouvent rien d'autre à dire "c'est une grande blague" sans même avoir l'honnêteté d'avouer que la quasi-intégralité de l'article de Raton n'était qu'un tissu de mensonge. Une tempête dans un verre d'eau mais qui a blessé.
Vous reprochez à un gars de Gameblog de mettre des photos de filles sur son blog privé alors que Raton est connu de toute la blogosphère pour se palucher devant des jeux hentaï où des filles de 12 ans se font violer à tour de bras...
Nan mais sérieux, j'ai honte pour vous...
Gameblog, ça a surtout le grand avantage par rapport à beaucoup d'autres sites de ne pas faire planter le IE6 que je dois me farcir au boulot ! Dommage qu'il faille parfois aller voir ailleurs pour fiabiliser les infos qu'ils donnent.
Par contre, j'aimerais bien l'explication de GB sur l'article sur l'autonomie de la NGP ; j'ai beau retourner le problème dans tous les sens je n'arrive pas à comprendre comment on peut voir autre chose que l'heure sur ces screens.
Dans l'article sur la NGP ils n'affirment rien, il faudra aller demander à la source qu'ils citent en début d'article. C'est vrai que c'est ridicule comme news en tout cas.
Pour ceux qui affirment que ce serait de la news à clics (je ne sais pas moi-même), je dirais volontiers: "quand bien même?". C'est fidèle à leur vision du DownLoad Content: "si y'a des gens pour les acheter, pourquoi ne pas le faire?".
GB est loin d'être un site sentationnaliste, je leur pardonnerai bien de râtisser du clic. Après tout c'est le principe de la survie, pour un site.
cette affaire aura au moins eu le merite de montrer le niveau atteint par les fanboys de GB ( metalurlant, erwan et consort -_- ) et de mettre en exergue l'intransigeance de JulienC et de Gameblog face a la critique ( aussi bien construite soit elle ).
Alors certes les raccourcis faits par raton n'etaient pas tous "honnetes" ( en meme temps on avait les liens pour verifier soi meme et ne pas prendre pour argent comptant l'info, chose qu'apparemment on ne fait plus quand on est un lecteur assidu de gameblog ) et meritaient d'etre rectifiees mais beaucoup de points tres justes ont ete leves et ont bien sur ete omis ou botte en touche par la reponse de JulienC ( ah pardon de la redaction de GB).
Au final GB essaye de manger a tous les rateliers et nivele l'info par le bas tout en se proclamant le defenseur ultime du jeu video ( ou plutot de leurs editeurs )
C'est triste quand on a connu en tant qu'ado les gens qui l'ont fonde et qui nous amusaient fort bien une fois par mois.
Au moins on ne pourra pas leur reprocher de vouloir reussir mais a quel cout :D
ibob,
T'es un champion, toi. On vient te mettre un caca sous le nez, tu avoues "alors certes les raccourcis faits par raton n'étaient pas tous honnêtes" et tu continues malgré tout de fustiger le "niveau des fanboys de gameblog" et de mettre "en exergue l'intransigeance de gameblog face à la critique"???
Mais bon sang, quand on raconte des conneries sur toi, tu essaies de te défendre, non? Il s'agit d'une grande injustice et il faudrait donc laisser les racontars pour montrer qu'on est tolérants?
C'est un non sens.
Se défendre, c'est faire preuve d'intransigeance face à la critique? Alors plus aucun dialogue n'est possible, seuls les parasites dans le genre de Raton ont droit au chapitre?
Un autre idiot plus haut venait dire "ce droit de réponse est absurde, ça montre que gameblog chie de peur devant Raton". Ce qui est amusant, c'est que si gameblog avait laissé couler l'affaire (comme il le suggérait ensuite), ce même crétin se serait fendu d'un magnifique "ils ne répondent pas, c'est qu'ils ont eu le bec cloué. Ca prouve que Raton avait raison."
Ca prouve juste que vous n'êtes là que pour emmerder les gens, que si on vous annonce que le ciel est bleu, vous n'aurez qu'une envie, nous faire comprendre que non, il est jaune.
Y'a vraiment de belles brochettes sur ce site...
Je suis exactement de l'avis de Metalurlant.
Au final on apprend que GB n'est peut-être pas tout blanc.
Certains de leurs arguments m'ont convaincu. Ca me va, je n'en demande pas plus d'un site qui vivote depuis 4 ans sans tomber dans la médiocrité que proposent certains sites concurrents, ou simplement leur laxisme. Je ne crois pas à la canonisation dans un médium où il faut crier pour se faire entendre.
derniere intervention avant le dodo et tout court parce que me battre avec les chiens de garde de GB ( qui en sus de faire la polcie sur le dit site vont la faire partout sur le net ).
Comme ca a ete dit plus haut, il n'y a rien de gravement diffamant dans la mesure ou le source des "raccourcis" est fournie avec ( tu sais le genre de truc que tu vois jamais quand on annonce 1h23 de duree de vie sur la NGP ou une Wii Hi-Fi pour l'e3 2010 sur un autre site ;)
Quant a ce qui a ete dit plus haut le seul commentaire a retenir c'est celui qui souligne le fait que si les redacs de Gameblog etaient si surs dans leurs bottes, ils "laisseraient pisser" ( comme le font les autres sites de JV en fait , tiens GK ou d'autres par ex ) puisque se battre sur des details debiles
( "ouin ouin t'as retire les guillemets de notre titre , mais bon je dis rien sur le fait qu'on avait clairement decide de mettre sodomite dedans pour faire du clic" ou autre "le contenu des blogs pleins de filles a poils d'un webmestre du site herberges sur nos serveurs mis en avant en home et avec une url 'gameblog' ne concerne pas la ligne editoriale de GB " ) bah c'est encore etre plus pueril que celui qui formule la pretendue critique puerile.
Et venir demander un droit de reponse sur un blog peu connu du grand nombre ( bah oui je l'ai decouvert grace a cette histoire et j'en suis ma foi bien content ) pour venir defendre son image trainee dans la boue, c'est quand meme un peu un aveu de faiblesse et d'ego surdimensionne.
Enfin bref, je cherche pas a convaincre les adeptes de GB. A mes yeux si on est encore la bas a participer regulierement et a venir applaudir des fesses sur chaque news kikoulol de JulienC c'est qu'on est definitivement perdu.
Il y a un moment ou faut prendre un pas de recul et se rendre compte que l'independance de la presse, bah c'est ca qui sauvera le jeu video et le rendra mature et pas faire des pieds et mains pour promouvoir des slogans bidons, vehiculer des cliches pour combattre d'autres cliches et reagir comme un gamin quand on se voit critique.
Imaginez la tete d'un non-initie qui tomberait sur cette histoire...
>>Et venir demander un droit de reponse sur un blog peu connu du grand nombre
C'est là où tu failes grave. Le blog du raton est plutôt connu, même s'il a dormi ces derniers mois.
ibob tu dis que c'est pas diffamant d'accuser moralement quelque chose tant qu'on met un lien?
Au final je ne m'attends pas à ce que le débat avance ici, les pro GB sont taxés de fanboyitude, les contre GB de moutons, c'est vrai pour certains mais ça n'importe pas vraiment.
Dire que de laisser pisser aurait été une preuve d'intégrité est une grave méprise, car comme le dit Corti le raton-laveur n'est pas si petit rongeur.
Au final oui leur droit de réponse sent pas mal le queue entre les jambes par endroits, et chacun est libre d'en penser ce qu'il veut. Ou du moins de vouloir en penser quelque chose.
C'est limite politique comme affaire : le sur-moi de gauche des blogueurs contre la droite décomplexée qui y va gaiment sur l'argent, qui monnaye tout et foule tout au pied.
C'est génial j'adore. Et encore une fois faut être bien con pour défendre GameBlog en tant que public : "ben ouais j'aime bien et je vous emmerde avec vos leçons de morale" ouais...
Où ça nous mène la folie des hommes...
Ah oui et le coup des guillemets c'était trop bien.
On court tout droit à notre perte.
L'heure n'est pas aux chips. Aux CHIPS!
the cake is a lie
(y'a pas que lui d'ailleurs =D )
Oui ben vous faites du fric, bon voila ok. Faut assumer quand les gens vous pointent du doigt pour ça, rien d'étonnant non plus.
Merci à vous Raton-Laveur d'avoir daigné faire usage de votre plus belle plume pour défendre si bien Gameblog.
Bonne continuation.
le vrai gagnant dans l'affaire, c'est raton laveur, il a réussi a faire du buzz à partir de rien...
Bon Gameblague ça a toujours été mauvais pour moi... Mais là c'est quand même critique !!!
Je resterai fidèle a Gamekult.
Après avoir lu la réponse de Gameblog on peut quand même dire que l'article du raton fait pâle figure ( t'as quel âge le raton ? on croirait lire un post de collègien. )
Passer pour un incapable devant tes "pitits coupins" qui font ce qu'ils peuvent pour limiter la casse en avançant des arguments encore plus débiles et plus faux que les tiens !
On a envie de dire " tiens, ramasse tes dents le raton !"
http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biais_...
Oh nom nom...
+20% de connections sur Gameblog hier, record historique du site en prime... cette affaire de gâteaux bénéficie avant tout a... Gameblog.
"Et les femmes dénudées ?
Vous trouvez ça normal, vraiment"
Non mais vous êtes serieux quand vous demandez ça ? C'est interdit d'aimer les femmes dénudées ? On est ou là, chez Christine Boutin ou chez famille de france ?
Sur gameblog, on peut créer des blogs, et pas forcément des blogs de jeux video... Il y a des blog de ciné, de sport, d'opinions... et bordel de merde OUI et dieu merci, il y a des blogs plein de jolies filles !
Raton = :rire:
Tout comme vos argumentaires à deux balles.
200. Le 04 mars 2011, 09:26 par BigBossFF
+20% de connections sur Gameblog hier, record historique du site en prime... cette affaire de gâteaux bénéficie avant tout a... Gameblog.
______
Ah oui ? Où tu peut voir ça ?
ça se trouve raton laveur est en contra avec gameblog pour créé un buzz énorme comme il se passe actuellement :rire:
Raton est un vendu !!!!!!!
MDR non ?
@ Erwan :
---Ah oui ? Où tu peut voir ça ?---
DTC.
C'est à dire ?
T'es lol comme mec toi, tu fourre ton nez partout comme une fouine. Réponds stp à ma question, quand on donne une info il faut donner sa source il parait ;)
Pas toujours,
tu nous informes que t'est con et on as franchement pas envie de voir la gueule de la source. :)
Le plus surprenant dans cette histoire, c'est qu'un simple raton-laveur parvienne à faire réagir un énorme éléphant... Plus aucun respect pour la loi de la jungle :)
Il y a trop de réactions extrêmes...
Le droit de réponse de Gameblog, franchement je m'attendais à mieux que du pinaillage en règle.
Ce que Raton a voulu dire, c'est que Gameblog est un site qui avait du potentiel pour ne pas tomber dans la complaisance vis à vis des pubs mais qui est malheureusement tombé dans ce piège. Il y est peut-être allé un peu fort, mais je pense qu'il voulait alerter les gens et en premier lieu les rédacteurs, qu'ils se mettent en danger. Comment être crédible en tant que journaliste en voyant certaines choses ?
Une excellent droit de réponse, Gameblog réagit sur les erreurs commises à son intention. Il n'est pas du devoir de Gameblog de répondre à des problématiques qui relèves de toutes l'industrie. Seulement beaucoup de chose sont dites à leur encontre, des choses fausse, diffamante et parfois abjecte. Gameblog reprend ici point par point ce que le rongeur à dit et nous pouvons nous rendre compte de la bêtise de son article. Il perd toute crédibilité et intérêt. Lorsque l'on s'attaque à quelqu'un il faut faire preuve de plus de rigueur, être pointilleux, précis, les lecteurs sont en droit d'attendre un niveau de travail correcte si ce n'est parfait et sans bavures.
Le droit de réponse ne fait donc pas de vagues, n'alimente pas la polémique, c'est la marque de journalistes qui ont fait leur preuve et connaissent la retenue. Ceux qui sont déçu de ce droit de réponse n'ont simplement pas compris qu'il servait juste de correction à un rongeurs, qui, s'il a fait ses devoirs, les a mal fait.
L'émission de Gameradio.fr est en ligne : http://www.gameradio.fr/2011/03/04/... (à partir de la 42ème minute)
Les chiens de garde de gameblog sont de sortie, on dirait...
> Les chiens de garde de gameblog sont de sortie, on dirait...
Gageons qu'ils ne sont probablement pas aussi nombreux que leurs pseudos, mais c'est quand même divertissant. Toujours du drama de première qualité par ici, merci Raton!
Wow, quand je lis les messages de soutient de membre sur Gameblog, je ris. Les mecs croient vraiment plausible le coup de l'interférence éclair du lecteur windows...
Le droit de réponse met en valeur que citer des liens à la pelle et faire du zapping en prenant des bouts de phrases et en tirer des conclusions hâtive n'est pas du journalisme : c'est du troll.
Il a trollé, il a buzzé, le quart d'heure de gloire est passé.
Adios
Bon... ça manque de gâteaux quand même...
Ha merci merci, je me suis tapé tous les commentaires et j'ai trop rigolé. Je vous aime, continuez s'il vous plait, avec spécial coup de coeur au(x) faux Erwan.
Sinon, si j'ai bien compris, y a un mec qui fait un post sur son blog (célèbre ou non) et qui réussit à foutre la merde à un "gros" site de JV.
Je m'en fous de savoir qui a tort ou raison, je dis juste que sur ce coup, le Raton, il est trop fort.
Si je donne raison à Raton, les fanboys de GB me traite d'idiot, et si je donne raison à GB, je passe pour un fanboy qui n'a aucun sens critique. Voilà pourquoi j'adore trop internet. Comment je pouvais vivre dans ma jeunesse sans ça !!!?
Et plus particulièrement un soufflé..
Vraiment pitoyable tout ce qu'il se passe ici. C'est aberrant.
Ma réponse : http://www.virtual-boy.fr/2011/03/0...
@Vince :
"Le droit de réponse met en valeur que citer des liens à la pelle et faire du zapping en prenant des bouts de phrases et en tirer des conclusions hâtive n'est pas du journalisme : c'est du troll.
Il a trollé, il a buzzé, le quart d'heure de gloire est passé.
Adios"
Mais je crois que c'est ce que fais tous les jours la rédaction et les pigistes de Gameblog non ? Récupérer des bouts de phrases pour en faire une news, récupérer une photo d'un écran d'un certaine console et en expliquer qu'un certain chiffre représente la durée de vie de la batterie, les annonces de futur console Nintendo (captain obvious) sans aucune preuve à l'appuie, c'est pas des exemples concrets ? Les conclusions hâtives sur le PC, les consoles portables, les news toutes fraiches qui n'ont même pas fait preuve d'une petite once de recherche pour savoir si on diffuse une news bidon ou pas, c'est clairement typique Gameblog (et ils ne s'en cache pas, ha si, ils détournent lproblème en rappelant qu'il utilisent le subjonctif conditionnelle, l'art de prendre des pincettes... ect :-) ), donner le nom de ses sources aussi c'est typiquement Gameblog (bravo d'ailleurs, le niveau 0 du soit-disant professionnalisme)
Donc tu veux dire que chez Gameblog, ce ne sont pas des journalistes ??
D'un côté, ils ne se sont jamais décrit comme de réels journalistes ! il se suffit d'écouter les LiveCam de JulienC ou d'autres itw écrites qu'il a donné.
@Bizou
Mais alors, qu'ils changent de métier, personne ne les retient...
La presse vidéoludique française est d'une médiocrité... C'est pas forcément beaucoup mieux à l'étranger, et on aurait pu s'attaquer à Gameblog comme à un autre site.
Certains reprochent à Gamekult sa sévérité. Quand on voit comment la majorité des autres sites se prostituent pour les grands éditeurs et les gros du jeu vidéo en donnant des notes hallucinantes en cadeau, alors oui, gamekult est sévère. Enfin, même eux ne sont pas exempts de reproches, mais sur d'autres points...
Puis bon, Gameblog, c'est de la censure dès qu'on est un peu trop critiques ou agressifs sur leur site. Gros lavage de cerveau systématique et auto satisfaction. Par ci on se fait offrir des Ipad, par là on donne le "privilège" à ses membres premium de les voir IRL, tel un roi qui invite ses sujets à sa cour après les avoir taxé. C'est ridicule de la part de journalistes.
Pour autant, tout n'est pas à jeter de Gameblog. Il y a bien le logo, qui n'est pas si mal... Ou Erwan, qui reste un membre émérite qui brille de son intelligence :o
Mais pourquoi changer de métier ? C'est ça que je ne comprends pas ! Ca ne vous plait pas à tous ici, et c'est votre plus grand droit, mais en quoi est-ce gênant pour vous ? Allez sur un autre site, Gameblog ne vous demande rien, et ils ont un public, dont je fais parti, qui est content de ce site.
Argumentaire attendu qui montre que les journalistes de Gameblog ont quand même un minimum de rhétorique. Ils reprennent les critiques les plus "faibles" (celles qui effectivement relevaient du bashing) et les démontent plutôt bien.
Le problème, c'est qu'il n'y a pas un mot sur les éléments les plus graves : le fait que le journaliste "vedette" de Gameblog se serve de sa notoriété et de sa mise en avant sur le site pour monter une boîte de com' en rapport avec l'activité du site (les jeux vidéos) et également pour faire de la pub à des jeux (Deus Ex3).
Ces 2 points démontrent une proximité financière bien trop importante. qui croira un seul instant que Gameblog notera Deus Ex 3 en toute objectivité après ça ? C'est juste impossible.
JulienC s'est déjà longuement expliqué à ce sujet ! et Gameblog tout autant. Parfois, quand on vous attaque aussi souvent qu'ils le sont, y a peut être plus d'envie de se justifier à chaque sortie aussi ;)
Gameblog est devenue une vaste blague aussi crédible que jv.com. L'attaque est abusive je trouve, mais certains devraient aretter de se branler sur une bande de pseudo journaleux qui répende la "fausse" bonne parole du jeu-vidéo.
@Bizou : Alors s'ils se décrivent pas comme des journalistes, qu'ils retirent ce statut de leur fiche de paie parce que vois-tu en France être journaliste c'est bénéficier d'abattements fiscaux, oui ils peuvent déduire 7650 euros de leurs revenus chaque année, ce qui signifie que jusqu'à 23000 euros de revenus par an les mecs sont non imposables (et oui). Donc ils ne sont clairement pas journaliste dans les faits et ne s'en cachent pas, mais continuent de profiter du statut providentielle (tu dois être qualifié comme journaliste ou rédacteur d'un organisme de presse plus ou moins reconnu comme tel et ça se déduit au prorata : si tu bosses six mois dans l'année, tu peux t'enlever 3825 euros... etc).
Sauf qu'arriver un moment faut arrêter de ce foutre du monde en donnant de belle grande envoler lyrique sur le fait que ce sont de simple blogueur qui parcourent le monde pour interviewer des people et se faire payer des entrées dans les plus grandes conférences spécialisées jeux vidéo mais surtout pas des journalistes (et donc tout ce qui touche à l'éthique du métier, professionnel, sérieux, travail d'investigation, trop chiant pour eux sans doute) et en parallèle posséder une carte de presse et être officiellement rédacteur dans une entreprise qui est un organisme de presse.
Tient d'ailleurs, Gameblog, ce ne sont pas eux qui utilisent cette expression dés qu'ils le peuvent ?? Mais oui cette expression qui en dit long sur eux ? C'est quoi déjà ?? Ha oui... journalisme totale ?
Non mais la vous faites beaucoup trop de mauvaise foi les gars. Vous partez vraiment dans des délires, j'aimerai juste qu'on me réponde : en quoi toute cette haine que vous avez contre eux est-elle justifié ? En quoi leurs actes si, dangereux soient-ils selon vous, engendrent des faits impardonnables dans votre propre vie ?
@Bizou
Ce qui est déprimant, c'est l'image du jeu vidéo qu'ils véhiculent...
C'est un peu comme de la télé réalité... Personne ne regarde mais ça fait chier tout le monde.
D'autre part, le fait que tu sois sur la défensive montre bien qu'il y a une part de vérité dans l'affaire.
@Bizou
"En quoi leurs actes si, dangereux soient-ils selon vous, engendrent des faits impardonnables dans votre propre vie ?"
Euh, faudrait que tu me donnes l'adresse de ton fournisseur. Ca doit être de la bonne !
Je te l'accorde, cette phrase est bien naze, et est écrite entre 2 phrases de mon prof, mais tu as compris le principe j'espère bien ;-)
mais alors ô MaCouille, quelle est la vraie parole ?
celle du raton ?
...
wwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww
Bon, j’ai toujours pas compris si l’heure était aux gâteaux ou pas.
En attendant, je prépare le thé.
Bizou: on n'est pas obligé de détester pour critiquer, jusqu'à preuve du contraire. J'ai pas vu beaucoup de haine dans les critiques qui ont été formulées à l'encontre de GB. De la déception, du dégoût, du mépris, de la colère, oui, mais de la haine... :s
RimK: depuis quand les ratons sont-ils des rongeurs?
JulienC débordé par ses fans :
"C'est dur d'être aimé par des cons."
Du coup, quel est le site web à consulté pour lire ses news jeux vidéo ?
Gamekult ?
JV.Com ?
@DébatStérile
Moi Gamekult me convient parfaitement.
Mais je comprends très bien que ceux qui ne s'y retrouvent pas gueule car il ne leur reste que Gameblog et JV.com qui sont pas sérieux. C'est bien pour ça que tout le monde gueule, ya pas grand chose à part Gameblog et on aimerai bien que les spécialistes du jeu vidéo proposent des trucs un peu moins concensuels.
Et Gameblog nous avait tous appatés avec son "le jeu vidéo autrement", on est déçus.
C'est sur qu'en disant "si vous aimez pas n'y allez pas" ou "bof c'est pas mieux ailleurs" qu'on encourage pas l'initiative et la prise de risque.
Oui, j'aime bien Gamekult aussi. Y'a une ambiance bonne enfant au sein de la redac', et c'est les seuls à redonner aux notes leurs justes valeurs. On est tellement habitués à voir des 18 pour des jeux à peu près réussis que ça fait bizarre les 6/10 de GK, mais finalement on s'y habitue, et on apprend à s’intéresser au coeur du texte, et plus à la note... Et même si je ne suis pas d'accord avec pas mal de leurs tests, il ne faut jamais perdre de vue qu'un test est subjectif. D'autant que Gamekult est constitué d'une très bonne communauté (au contraire de JV.COM) qui peut aussi donner son avis, ce qui permet d'avoir un oeil sur c que pense vraiment les joueurs;
huu c'est au moins des juristes qui leur ont pondu le droit de réponse ;)
Petite analyse du ton/vocabulaire:
"la critique est une chose, les erreurs factuelles et la diffamation en sont d'autres"
"il n'est pas dans notre nature de porter l'affaire au-delà de ce cadre"
"les problèmes de ce point sont, après correction, nuls et non avenus"
"nous n'avons pas l'audace (...) de prétendre connaître tous les tenants et aboutissants du dit conflit pour y apporter un jugement plus prononcé."
"la thèse (...) n'est plus illustrée que par un exemple erroné, donc non recevable"
"Nous ne reviendrons pas à chaque fois sur ce genre de diffamations"
On peut noter le mot diffamation 2 fois. Je vous laisse lire la définition:
http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diffam...
Attention, accuser quelqu'un de diffamation à tort, c'est aussi de la diffamation ;)
Ce que l'histoire ne nous dit pas c'est combien a été payé le logo Schpountz X retenu. Un t-shirt ? Un iPad ? Une Wii HD ? Une batterie de NGP de rechange ? ;)
Sinon le coup de la "commutation éclair" c'est tout simplement extraordinaire. Google ne connaît que ce cas-ci apparemment: http://www.google.fr/#&q=commut...
Tout ceci est quand même assez marrant, non ?
Erwan, tu as 34 ans ?
Tu ferrais mieux de quitter l'écran de ton PC, essayer de te trouver une fille et mettre ton zigouigoui dans son troutrou pour la première fois, ça changera ta vie.
Passer plusieurs heures à commenter un blog comme un gosse de 6 ans, t'es très grave mec, vraiment.
Faut croire qu'on a les fans qu'on mérite, la qualitay gameblog se retrouve dans ses fans. Que de finesse et de présence d'esprits, et ô combien de pseudos qui pointent vers la même adresse IP, la grande classe quoi, continuez comme ça les gars, on compte sur vous pour nous faire rire, encore.
Bizarrement, je n'ai pas trouvé beaucoup de commentaires intéressants,seulement quelques un font preuves de réflexion. Si ceux-là ils ne sont pas en accord avec la "ligne éditoriale" de gameblog c'est leur droit (forte heureusement), mais les autres j'ai plus l'impression que c'est votre haine de JulienC qui vous poussent à poster des commentaires complètement idiots.
Par contre Erwan fait gaffe, reste poli c'est bien que tu aimes gameblog mais je trouve que tu vas trop loin.
Et puis pourquoi se prendre la tête, pour du jeu vidéo ? Je pensais que ce média était surtout un moyen de se divertir et pas une raison de s'en mettre plein sur la gueule.
* fort heureusement
Déjà répondu à Rain à ce propos.
Je ne parle pas d'argent. D'ailleurs quand tu joues à un jeu vidéo, vous pensez constamment à tout l'argent dépensé pour celui-ci ?
Moi non et j'ai pas envie d'y penser, je suis ptetre un bisounours de ce point de vue mais bon.
Vous allez perdre du cash à cause de gameblog ? Non donc je vois pas pourquoi on parle d'argent.
Ils ont juste une vision différente des choses. Laissez les faire se qu'ils veulent car si c'est vraiment mauvais, les gens s'en rendront compte forcément, et là le site ne marchera plus.
dsl pour le mélange tu/vous
disons que gameblog sont les jean pierre pernaud du journalisme videoludique....alors qu'a la base ils voulaient être plutôt canard enchaîné dans l’âme
dans tout les cas on aura du mal a faire croire aux medias traditionnels que les jeux video sont une industrie adulte si les gens sensé soutenir cette thèse sont très largement soupçonnable de collusion avec les acteurs de cette industrie.
être critique et objectif requiert une indépendance sans faille et du professionnalisme...
"requiert une indépendance" tu évoques Ankama ?
Si oui jusqu'à présent, en quoi cela à fait baisser concrètement la qualité de Gameblog, que ce soit au niveau des test ou autre ? Tant que cela ne change rien à ce niveau j'men fou royalement.
Mais par contre je comprends que cela puisse poser problèmes à certains !
Ca s'appelle simplement la confrontation des idées. C'est ce qui permet de les former et de les affûter :)
non Jambon, je ne parle pas d'ankama, je parle en rapport aux annonceurs sur le site, on peux difficilement faire un article assassin sur un jeu sony quand justement on dépend des pubs sony pour faire tourner son "journal".et des invitations de sony pour les soirées de preview
voila pourquoi le canard enchaîné (qui ne diffuse aucune pub et ne compte que sur le prix de vente pour prospérer) est bien plus crédible que ne le sera jamais tf1: car il peux se permettre de taper dassault, l'oreal et lagardere sans craindre de boycott publicitaire de leur filiale et par conséquent la faillite pour delit de verité...
a l’époque de console+,tilt and co, il y avais déjà une dépendance a la publicité, mais le loisir videoludique etait "neuf" et l'enthousiasme de la rédaction sincère (donc ça coinçait moins au niveau des conflits d’intérêt) par contre, a l'heure actuel, les gamers sont bien plus exigent qu'a l’époque, donc les critiques assassines de mauvais jeux aurait du exploser....sauf que non, au contraire il y en a moins...et en parallèle la dépendance a la pub c'est accentué vu que le prix d'achat a disparu en passant du format magazine au format blog (les premium ne suffiront jamais a pallier cette perte)
par contre je comprend aussi que la rédaction de gameblog ai besoin de manger, et que ne diffuser que des pubs pour des fringues kawai et des sush shop ne suffise pas a remplir la gamelle...mais alors? que faire? ben se comporter de façon irreprochable...c'est deja un premier pas, et il y a clairement un probleme a ce niveau chez gameblog (mais ce ne sont pas les seuls, c'est juste les plus visibles)
On ne peut pas comparer le canard enchainé et gameblog : pas les même moyens, le canard enchainé lui vend ses papiers, sur le net c'est bien plus dur de vendre (d'où la formule premium). Ils se sont très bien expliqués sur la pub dans leur droit de réponse, je n'y reviendrait donc pas.
"les gamers sont bien plus exigent qu'a l’époque, donc les critiques assassines de mauvais jeux aurait du exploser....sauf que non, au contraire il y en a moins..." : ils ont pas envie de tester tous les léa passions donc c'est normal qu'il y a peu de mauvaises notes ! :) Blague à part ils ont expliqué leur fonctionnement pour leur test, la note ne veut pas dire grand chose, l'important c'est le contenu. Je dirais que la note permet seulement de mettre en avant certains coup de cœurs.
On peut d'ailleurs résumer leur ligne éditoriale par ces coups de cœurs, c'est peut être cela le problème pour certains.
En tout cas c'est très intéressant de pouvoir partager son point de vue ici !
Gamekult vis de la pub, ce n'est pas ce qui leur pose problème
d'ailleurs, pour prendre le cas heavy rain, il y avait des pubs heavy rain sur gamekult alors que le jeu s'est tapé 6/10 (ce qui n'est pas une mauvaise note, c'est un jeu "honnête"
Le problème, c'est de faire l'amalgame entre le travail de journaliste et les sources de financement. C'est exactement ce que fait monsieur julien C, et c'est bien pour ça qu'on le critique.
Ensuite, vous parlez de haine. En gros, dès que l'on critique quelqu'un, on éprouve de la haine à son égard? L'esprit GB est louche de ce point de vue. Car les Gamekulteurs sont infiniement plus négatifs dans leurs critiques a l'égard de gamekult que positifs. Pourtant, s'ils restent sur le site, c'est qu'ils l'aiment. Une critique négative est souvent plus constructive qu'une critique positive, car elle permet de mettre en avant les problèmes, et donc de les corriger. Se voiler la face, faire l'autruche, ça n'a jamais réglé aucun problème.
Sur ce, bon vent.
bof bof ni GB ni les gens qui aiment GB n'ont su répondre au probleme de fond au contraire ils les ont plutot desservi je trouve,qq qui ont commenté ici (et qui n'était pas familier du site tout comme moi) ont avancé des arguments valables auquels les pro GB ont répondu par des questions ou simplement ont évité le vrai débat en floodant, en insultant ou répondant des trucs débiles du style : "si vous etes pas contents lisez pas" ah ouais merci ça fait déjà longtemps que bcp ne lisent plus, je ss déçu j'attendais des vraies réponses sur le pourquoi Gameblog ressemble de plus en plus à "tf1", un truc que certains n'ont pas compris, il n'y a pas ou très peu de haine sur GB bcp de gens qui n'aiment pas GB avaient bcp d'espoir dessus avant, ils sont déçus, point barre, moi je connais que depuis début 2010, j'aime bien Rahan Julo et Tiger, j'aimais bien Gollum je n'aime pas JulienC
De plus que les pro GB m'expliquent cette phrase prise sur son twitter :
@JulienTellouck Ca fausse rien, au contraire t'as la chance d'avoir un gros public et c'est intelligent de bien les utiliser.
Il faudrait lui dire que de faire de la dérision sur sa propre bétise c'est vraiment très bête
Pour moi faire un article comme celui de raton-labeur résulte plus de la haine et de l'acharnement. Ca fait depuis gameblog que JulienC se fait critiquer, mais depuis Heavy rain on l'embête sur la pub (d'ailleurs pourquoi lui ?, les autres membres de la rédac gameblog étaient et sont toujours du même avis que lui) j'ai plutôt l'impression que JulienC n'est pas aimé tout simplement. En effet sur Joypad par exemple on le voyait moins (normal pas de podcast, pas de vidéos) et maintenant qu'on l'entend parler vraiment ...
« celui de raton-labeur »
Faudrait arrêter d’écrire bite.
Franchement, lire les commentaires de l'article me déçoivent encore plus que lire l'article en lui-même. On y retrouve à la fois quelques Gamebloggeurs qui souvent (j'ai pas dit tous, loin de là) font plus flooder qu'autre chose, mais je les comprends face au nombre de personnes qui arrivent ici pour critiquer n'importe comment Gameblog.
Gameblog a fait une réponse ? Mais Raton Laveur leur reprochait lui-même que c'était ce qu'ils font tout le temps ! C'est une tradition de faire une réponse organisée à un peu tout, et je trouve ça logique qu'ils répondent à leurs attaques. Sincèrement, vous préfèreriez qu'ils snobent l'article ?
Gameblog critique plus sur la forme que sur le fond : Ben, je suis désolé, mais quand on voit les lacunes de la forme, les fréquentes lacunes d'information, on a l'impression que RatonLaveur a googlé "Gameblog polémique" et a lu tous les résultats, ce qui est un travail considérable. Pas suffisant cependant.
Qu'est-ce qu'il reste au final ?
Que Gameblog promeut ses stars pour faire sa promotion, ce qui malheureusement est vrai, ce qui ne l'empêche pas de faire des choses de qualités à côté.
Que Julien Chièze est une personne pleine de défauts, je l'ai déjà dit (un peu naïf de ne pas voir les conflits d'intérêt par exemple), mais qui ne fait pas tout Gameblog. C'est plutôt une vitrine sympathique, qui s'occupe de son image, mais vous conviendrez que le travail rédactionnel provient plus souvent des autres membres de la rédaction.
Que Gameblog (Ô misère !) laisse une liberté totale à ceux qui décident d'y créer leur blog. Et que si un rédacteur aime mettre des photos de femmes à poil entre deux bugs corrigés, il peut le faire.
Non mais, regardez un peu les blogs de Gameblog : A votre avis, comment pourraient-ils fédérer une communauté comme celle-ci, être suivis par des développeurs qui y ouvrent un blog officiel, plusieurs artistes du milieu qui ne sont pas VIP mais que l'on peut suivre si l'on cherche un peu, et certains bloggeurs très intéressants, s'ils étaient comme Raton Laveur les décrivait ?
Enfin, je remarque quand même qu'il y a beaucoup plus d'attaques sur JulienC que sur les autres rédacteurs (a par MisterP et ses babes sur son blog, qu'il ne fait même pas passer dans le fil d'actu, contrairement aux posts des autres rédacteurs).
Moi j'attendais pour 16h un droit de réponse de Raton Laveur. Je suis déçu, déçu...
Maintenant que les esprits se sont calmés, je me permets de répondre. (Je regrette d’ailleurs qu’aucun ménage ne soit fait dans les commentaires quand certains n’aident manifestement pas à faire avancer le débat - si tant est qu’il y en ait un).
Je voudrais plus particulièrement revenir sur la manière dont certaines personnes (et, pour le coup, l’équipe de Gameblog) aime relativiser la portée de la discussion en une phrase pleine de sens : « le jeu vidéo n’est qu’un divertissement/loisir » ; ce qui me semble plus qu’hypocrite de leur part.
A certaines heures, cette même équipe scande « Le jeu vidéo a gagné mais ne le sait pas encore » en prétendant défendre la cause d’un médium qui irait bien au-delà des clichés simplistes que le grand public aime attribuer à l’industrie. Pourtant, quand les temps se font plus sombres, ces mêmes journalistes, défenseurs auto-proclamés, n’hésitent pas à réduire cette même passion au simple statut de passe-temps ; quelque chose qui ne vaille même pas qu’on se batte si on les entend bien : « ce n’est *que* du jeu vidéo. » Un changement d’opinion soudain qui semble malheureusement relever de l’opportunisme le plus primaire (et le plus franc).
Je pense que le droit de réponse de Gameblog est bon, sur la forme ; l’article de Raton comprenait autant d’erreurs factuelles que l’équipe s’est chargée d’en corriger, tant mieux. Je trouve pourtant dommage (comme tant d’autres) que ceux-ci n’aient pas pensé qu’il était judicieux d’aborder le fond, de manière détournée ou non. C’aurait pu être le bon moment pour, en quelque sorte, refaire serment d’allégeance envers le média quand beaucoup remettent en cause le coeur qu’ils ont à mettre en valeur l’industrie. Un exercice qui, par ailleurs, aurait pu être l’occasion, pour eux, de réfléchir plus utilement à leur influence quant à l’image qui est donnée du jeu vidéo et, pourquoi pas, de remettre leurs propres méthodes en cause. Seulement non, la réflexion n’était - semble-t-il - pas à l’ordre du jour ; seul le catalogue de corrections inutiles comptait.
Je crois que cette subtilité, mieux qu’un seul des liens de Raton, témoigne parfaitement d’une hypocrisie, source de bien des désillusions parmi ceux qui, comme moi (et comme les rédacteurs de Gameblog l’ont longtemps prétendu), croient que le jeu vidéo a tous les éléments qui lui permettent d’offrir des expériences uniques et véritablement enrichissantes en matière de philosophie, d’éducation, de réflexion, d’émotion, etc. Parce que le jeu vidéo a l’atout unique de pouvoir lier la narration à l’interactivité par le biais du gameplay.
Je pense que c’est ce qui manque à ce droit de réponse : l’humanité, l’intelligence que Gameblog s’est longtemps vanté d’avoir mais qui, à la fin de ce mail, est piétinée sans culpabilité.
Ils l’avouent donc désormais : pour eux, ce n’est que du divertissement. Au moins, maintenant, c’est clair, ils ne partagent pas notre passion. Je continuerai donc ma quête pour le trouver, le site qui traite du jeu vidéo autrement.
Rahan il y a 4 ans:
"(...) Replaçons les choses dans leur contexte ; je sors de Gaming, expérience qui m'a laissé sur les rotules parce que concevoir ce magazine en si peu de temps et en tenir la barre avec Traz en touchant les 120+ heures de taf par semaine, c'était très dur ;) -- Donc besoin de relâcher un peu la pression, et de digérer une fin qui n'aurait pas du avoir lieu, en tout cas pas comme ça. (...)
Voilà, je pense pas pouvoir faire plus clair ^^ ; merci encore de nous lire (et de nous écouter), et j'espère que Gameblog saura conquérir d'autres lecteurs, se développer -- avec la promesse solennelle qu'en ce qui nous concerne, le jour où on arrêtera de s'amuser et de déconner signera l'arrêt pur et simple du site. On parle de jeu vidéo, ça peut être sérieux (parfois il faut l'être), mais ça reste du plaisir et du fun, pour nous c'est fondamental."
Ils ne sont pas allé dans le débat de fond dans leur droit de réponse mais avaient dit dans un podcast que le ton de Joypad était aussi humoristique et qu'il reste en adéquation avec leur valeurs de départ. Ceux qui veulent voir le mal le trouveront toujours, c'est bête de le dire mais rien n'est blanc ou noir.
Tiens, c'est rigolo http://www.raton-laveur.net/post/16... qui se répond à lui-même. Vraiment drôle cette nouvelle fonctionnalité :D
@Il Palazzo-sama : merci de ta remarque très constructive ... les erreurs tu connais ?
@Mapple : je trouve ton analyse bonne même si je ne partage pas ton point de vue. Si tu ne te retrouves pas dans cette vision du jeu vidéo (c-a-d qui est avant tout un divertissement) c'est que Gameblog n'est pas fait pour toi.
« Le jeu vidéo a gagné mais ne le sait pas encore » et « ce n’est *que* du jeu vidéo. » sont deux phrases, qui selon moi ne sont pas contradictoires. Justement, si l'on considère que le jeu vidéo est divertissement comme peut l'être le cinéma ou la télévision, le jv s'imposera de lui même : en effet vu le nombre de joueurs actuellement dans le monde.
On peut dire que le cinéma n'est "que" du cinéma, en tout cas pour le grand public c'est le cas.
Comme dans le cinéma, on peut trouver des jeux vidéo "d'auteurs" (je mets bien auteur entre guillemets), des jeux vidéo spectaculaires à la Michael Bay, des jeux vidéos plus enfantins...
Je pense que c'est grâce à cette diversité et au nombre de joueurs que « le jeu vidéo a gagné mais ne le sait pas encore »
En tout cas désolé d'avances pour les diverses fautes de français dans mon texte, je ne suis ni un journaliste ni un écrivain, juste un lecteur de 18 ans de gameblog.
Les gamers, ca fait depuis 2006 qu'ils ont laissé tomber. Merci messieurs les petits casu qui voulez vous dandiner devant votre téloche.
@ Aer toujours cette guerre gamers vs casuals....
Bof non, juste un état des lieux. Franchement, je connaissais pas trop ce site avant (gameblog je parle) et je t'avoues que j'ai pas plus envie de connaitre. Ceci dit, comme je l'ai dit plus haut, pognon pognon, mais c'est normal en faite. Le JV est devenu le divertissement ultime de notre siècle, faisons du pognon avec et tout ces petits sites ont parfaitement raison d'être heureux et d'agir comme ça, sinon ils crèveraient la bouche ouverte.
Parler de guerre est un peu osé, tellement la plupart n'en ont plus rien à foute et attendent juste patiemment un jeu ou deux qui saura vraiment les intéresser.
"petits sites" : jv.com gamekult, jv.fr ou gameblog sont pas de si petits sites que ça,je parle en terme d'influence .
Bien sûr que parler de guerre est exagéré. Un "vrai" gamer a déjà jouer à des jeux casu : par exemple Tetris peut être considéré comme le premier jeu casual (ma mère y joue encore alors qu'elle n'y connait rien en jv) et pourtant ils est reconnu par la majorité des gamers comme un bon jeu.
C'est un peu comme le cinéma, tu peux aimer un film comme avatar et pourtant être un grand cinéphile. (je sais l'exemple est mal choisi comparer tetris à avatar j'ai honte)
C'est vrai, je ne vois pas ça très bien. Faut dire qu'a par gamekult de temps à autre, je me tourne plus vers des sites spécialisés ou des blogs/forums.
On pourrait citer Myst aussi, un jeu qui a su gagner le coeur de nombreux "non-joueurs" diront nous. Faut il leur en vouloir ? Je ne crois pas, ce genre de jeu à une valeur, quelque chose qui fait que.
J'ai pu essayer récemment les lapins crétins, pour citer un exemple récent et franchouillard tiens, et j'en ai rien à dire de particulier. C'est drôle, on s'amuse en soirée oui, après je ne l'aurais pas acheté et je n'y jouerais pas souvent. Aussitôt essayé, aussitôt oublié.
Je suis d'accord avec toi sur Myst, combien de millions d'exemplaire vendus pour ce jeux ?
Surtout pour un jeu de ce genre.
Autre jeu "casu" : wii sports j'y joue encore des membres de ma famille qui ne jouent pas aux jeux vidéo, cela permet de partager quelque chose avec eux par le biais de ma passion. Pour moi ce qui compte ce n'est pas forcément la qualité d'un jeu, mais les moments que l'on a passé à y jouer
Le problème étant que ces jeux casu, de un j'y passe très peu de temps, de deux, je n'en retire pas grand chose. Alors oui, passer de bons moments avec sa famille, c'est très bien, j'en passe aussi de très bons à discuter, à regarder un film ou écouter de la musique. Ca apporte rien le faite que ce soit un jeu, à part pouvoir dire à ses potes dans la cours "lol on joue a wii sport/lapins crétins/randomgame avec mes parents."
Je dis je, c'est un je un peu plus large que mon égo.
Selon moi le plus important n'est pas le média mais ce que l'on en garde des semaines, des mois, des années après.
Je garde de très très bon souvenirs de mes parties de PES/fifa avec mes potes (qu'ils soient gamers ou non) et aussi de très bon de ICO.
Ça m'éclate de jouer aux jeux vidéo tout comme de lire, je ne joue pas aux jeux vidéo par ce que se sont des jeux vidéo, mais plutôt parce qu'ils me permettent de passer de bon moments.
C'est peut être la la différence. J'aime concilier les deux personnellement :).
Surement ! ;)
Dans les commentaires précédents, je rejoins celui d'hairaz.
Je reconnais que les accusations du raton sont souvent justes. Gameblog met souvent en avant certains jeux et son co-fondateur Julien Chièze est disons ambigu.
Mais je trouve qu'il est dommage de résumer le site à ces deux gros défauts. Cela fait plus de dix ans que je parcoure la toile et visite de nombreux sites sur les jeux vidéo, et Gameblog n'est pas si mal que ça.
Les podcasts de la rédaction abordent de nombreux sujets intéressants et apportent une analyse profonde que peu de site font.
Le contenu rédactionnel est parfois critiquable mais comparé à d'autres sites de jeux vidéo il reste correct.
Quand à la communauté Gameblog, elle est en général constituée de personne réellement attachés au jeu vidéo et non des kikoo-lol, que l'on va retrouver sur d'autres sites.
Je trouve la critique sur le blog de MisterP et ses photos de femmes assez facile et pleine de raccourcis. A ce moment là autant dire que Nolife (je suis un grand fan de la chaîne) est une chaîne de pédophile car il passe des clips de Jpop.
Il est donc dommage de descendre entièrement le site et de relever seulement ces défauts. Il aurait était plus intelligent de faire remarquer ces problèmes avec une critique moins virulente, avec moins de raccourcis, et moins ciblée sur Julien Chièze qui est loin de constituer la totalité de la rédaction de Gameblog. Le jeu vidéo est devenu un domaine plus que commercial, le marketing est présent partout et l'argent y a une place importante. Et même si Gameblog peut avoir un rapport avec tout ça, cela reste un excellent site. Pourquoi ne pas descendre Jeuxvideo.com, peut être parce que ça serait trop facile ?
Alors au fait, the cake is a lie?
@ Goyoto je plussoie.
@ toxiik202 suis-je démasqué ? ^^
Même si je ne suis pas d'accord avec pas mal d'entre vous, c'est toujours intéressant de pouvoir discuter et de confronter les différents avis. Par contre dommage que chacun reste camper sur ses positions. :)
"Je trouve la critique sur le blog de MisterP et ses photos de femmes assez facile et pleine de raccourcis. A ce moment là autant dire que Nolife (je suis un grand fan de la chaîne) est une chaîne de pédophile car il passe des clips de Jpop."
Je... ouah.
Je m'étais promis de laisser l'affaire derrière moi, mais... ouah.
Faut en avoir une sacrée paire pour avancer un truc pareil.
Voire carrément deux.
@Arez
Je ne pense pas que nolife est une chaîne de pédophile, je souhaitai juste montrer à quel point il était facile de faire des raccourcis avec quelques éléments qui ne sont pas représentatif d'un média.
Y'a des photos de femme dénudés sur le blog de MisterP donc Gameblog est un site qui met en avant le sexe et qui ne respecte pas du tout leur engagement sur leur vision du jeu vidéo. C'est un des messages que fait passer raton dans son article. Je le trouve tiré par les cheveux. Un blog d'un membre de la rédaction n'est d'abord pas ou peu représentatif de tout un site.
Ensuite ce n'est pas parce qu'on met des photos de femmes dénudés sur son blog qu'on est forcément un pervers ou qu'on pense que le jeu vidéo a raison de mettre en avant le sexe et la violence dans la plupart de ses productions. Aucune déclaration ou aucun texte de MisterP le prouve, le raton va sans doute trop loin.
Mais je répète encore que je reconnais les autres accusations du raton, mais qu'il est dommage de ne retenir que ça du site.
Personnellement je n'apprécie pas du tout la ligne éditoriale de l'équipe de Gameblog.
Mais c'est sûrement une question de "goût" et je suis donc libre de ne pas consulter. (Un peu comme je suis libre de ne pas regarder TF1, écouter fun radio, etc..)
Bref dans le monde merveilleux des goûts et des dégoûts, c'est "passe ton chemin si ça te plaît pas et arrête de me sâouler avec ta critique".
C'est sûr que c'est plus sexy que de dire: "écoute, nous on est là pour faire de l'audience, et avancer notre intérêt bien compris, et surement pas pour faire découvrir des nouveaux trucs, ou favoriser la réflexion"
Pourtant j'ai trouvé dans l'article de raton-laveur un éclairage intéressant sur les grosses ficelles de Gameblog. J'étais auparavant arrivé à un triste constat quand à la pauvreté de leur ligne éditoriale, qui pourrait se résumer: "ne parlons que de ce qui intéresse déjà au moins 1 million de personnes". C'est une machine à audience.
Minecraft commence à représenter un public conséquent? ok, c'est bon, on peut en parler. D'ou le flirt épisodique avec le X, etc..
C'est surement, à eux aussi, leur "libre choix" d'avoir fait ces choix. Mais combiné à avec un manque de maturité évident (malgré la présence d'un sage expérimenté et critique rigoureux tel que Cyril Drevet ;-)) ça donne l'impression d'une bande d'irresponsables aux commandes d'un paquebot (qu'ils ont probablement le mérite d'avoir créé, sauf omission de ma part). C'est surement très rigolo, et forcément de temps en temps, le paquebot fait quelques dégâts ici et là. La cerise sur le gâteau, c'est qu'ils s'étonnent qu'on leur parle de sécurité maritime, ou de l'importance de garder les yeux ouverts quand on pilote.
Article le plus commenté sur Gameblog :
"Le marché du jeu sur PC gagne 20% en 2010 Le PC redevient à la mode ?"
Le PC c'est pas tendaaance ! En lisant ça, on se croirait sur 100% Mag de M6 ou dans les Queers.
Bon, petite réponse à Julien C., je sais pas si tu me liras, mais là je trouve que tu te fous tellement de la tronche du monde avec ton logo que ça me fait sortir de mes gonds.
Tu dis que l'auteur de ton logo a été rémunéré, soit, c'est surement vrai OK. Par contre, ce qui est juste lamentable, c'est de faire "concourir" des gens, gratuitement, pour qu'ensuite tu puisse choisir peperre ton petit logo sans avoir rémunéré le travail de recherche de tous ces gens, qui ont passé des heures pour rien, perdu du temps pour que toi tu en gagne gratuitement.
Bref, parait que Gameblog est à coté de CFSL dans les locaux, je te conseillerai d'aller les voir pour te renseigner, car c'est pas vraiment un truc qu'ils défendent, il y a d'ailleurs un adage la bas qui dit "compétition = rémunération", car ce genre de pratique de merde que tu fais contribue à pourrir le marché des illustrateurs et des graphistes, qui du coup n'ont plus le choix face à ce genre de pratique qui deviens une généralité.
Voilà, perso tu vois rien que pour ça du coup je boycotterai ta société, et sache aussi que je ferai tourner l'info autour de moi sur la création de ce logo, chose que je trouve, je le répète, lamentable, surtout pour un mec qui bosse à coté d'une assoc qui a toujours défendu l'inverse de ça.
Capitalisme HO
"sans avoir rémunéré le travail de recherche de tous ces gens, qui ont passé des heures pour rien, perdu du temps pour que toi tu en gagne gratuitement." --roxnin
Plein d'écrivains, de peintres, de musiciens, d'inventeurs créent sans être assurés d'avoir une rémunération pour leur travail, mais peuvent obtenir dans certains cas des rémunérations plus élevées qu'un simple salarié.
Ensuite, rien ne les oblige à "perdre leurs temps" pour un travail dont la rémunération n'est PAS assuré.
Personellement, je préfère passer mon temps libre à des projets de la brigade SOS (loi associative 1901).
Il a été rémunéré combien le participant sinon? (avec un logo sortant vainqueur d'un concours, il doit avoir eu au moins 500€)
http://fr.jurispedia.org/index.php/...
>Par contre, ce qui est juste lamentable, c'est de faire "concourir" des gens, gratuitement, pour qu'ensuite tu puisse choisir peperre ton petit logo sans avoir rémunéré le travail de recherche de tous ces gens, qui ont passé des heures pour rien, perdu du temps pour que toi tu en gagne gratuitement.
Welcome in real life. http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Appel_...
Que ce soit informel n'empêche pas que c'est comme ca que ca fonctionne.
Je sais pas si vous l'avez tous déjà vu mais un gars a fait une p'tite BD marrante : http://latraverseedustick.over-blog... Ça colle en plus bien avec l'actualité de la sortie de Pokémon.
Je me dois de répondre aux précédents messages vantant les mérites de techniques peu scrupuleuses concernant le graphisme par un lien (plutôt que d'avancer des choses fausses, je préfère laisser les gens se renseigner) :
http://www.alliance-francaise-des-d...
C'est une véritable plaie pour les graphistes, déjà payés au lance pierre avec des conditions de travail scandaleuses, un secteur avec un taux de chômage exceptionnel ou l'on survit comme on peut.
Une fois de plus gameblog nous montre sa médiocrité... Pour changer.
T'es mignon FN, mais en général pour un appel d'offres, on fait appel à une (des) agence(s), ce qui veut dire que les graphistes ne taffent pas pour rien (salarié versus freelance). Si une agence fait appel à un freelance pour l'appel d'offres, il sera payé aussi, meme si l'agence ne remporte pas l'appel d'offres.
Fabulous Nigger : les Appel d'Offre consistent pas à demander à X prestataire de faire un boulot complet pour ensuite choisir celui qu'on gardera et (éventuellement) qu'on rémunérera, c'est un choix d'une entreprise pour faire un travail, mais en aucun cas elles le font avant d'etre sélectionner. Renseigne toi avant de parler.
Et le fait que ça soit "courant" prouve juste que Gameblog (ou Julien C. vu que c'est de son initiative) est juste un rapace de plus qui n'a aucune volonté de faire changer les choses dans le bon sens, et pour une entité qui bosse dans les locaux à coté d'une assoc qui justement se bouge pour faire changer ça (CFSL) oui, c'est assez lamentable.
Dooonc, ce que tu reproches, c'est que la personne qui a fait le logo n'a pas été choisi à "celui qui fera le plus joli e-mail gagne"?
S'ils avaient choisis ce logo ou je ne sais quoi sans avoir connaissance du résultat final, se foutre de leur gueule aurait été justifié.
En fait, je ne vois même pas quel peut être le problème. Raton a bien fait participé qui le voulait (et gratuitement) pour son petit truc en haut à gauche, à ma connaissance personne ne lui a reproché d'avoir choisi quelles propositions il a gardé. Je ne vois pas pourquoi cracher sur quelqu'un qui fait la même chose en offrant un machin au créateur modèle sélectionné.
"Dooonc, ce que tu reproches, c'est que la personne qui a fait le logo n'a pas été choisi à "celui qui fera le plus joli e-mail gagne"?" -- Gentle Rapist
> Je demande pas aux entreprises de jouer au loto
> dans l'idéal, ça devrait être :
"On cherche un designer pour nos logos, merci de nous envoyer vos CV et des exemples de vos créations (et non pas des créations a développer personnellement pour nous) par e-mail.
On verra ensuite qui on prendra pour travailler en prestation avec nous tout au long de la conception du logo (proposition de plusieurs logos/variantes avec le créateur, discussion constructive des choix, écoute des conseils du designer).
=> coût d'envoi d'un CV et des exemples : 5 clics.
> Or là, on demande à un groupe de personne de faire gratuitement le travail de recherche d'idées et de propositions.
=> coût du travail gratuit pour une proposition de logo : plusieurs heures avec peu de chance d'être rémunéré.
"Raton a bien fait participé qui le voulait (et gratuitement) pour son petit truc en haut à gauche, à ma connaissance personne ne lui a reproché d'avoir choisi quelles propositions il a gardé. " -- Gentle Rapist
=> peut-être parce-que raton-laveur.net n'est pas un site commercial (il n'y a même pas de publicité ici)
"Je ne vois pas pourquoi cracher sur quelqu'un qui fait la même chose en offrant un machin au créateur modèle sélectionné." -- Gentle Rapist
=> Le problème, c'est ceux qui lui proposent gratuitement des logo, c'est comme vendre gratuitement une prestation, c'est de la vente à perte, ce qui est de la concurrence déloyale et une dévalorisation du métier.
Allons, keul, tu dois suffisamment fréquenter Clients from Hell pour savoir qu'une entreprise, ca se contente rarement d'un CV et d'un portfolio (et elles ont raison, vu combien de designs merdiques ont été pondus par des designers très respectables).
De toute manière, comme je l'ai déjà dit, il s'agissait d'un échange de bons procédés, de troc voir, au pire, un peu de travail au black. Est-ce qu'on en est au point de dénoncer le travail au black sur internet? Franchement?
=> peut-être parce-que raton-laveur.net n'est pas un site commercial (il n'y a même pas de publicité ici)
Ha je suis con, je croyais qu'il s'agissait d'un logo pour un quelconque blog égocentrique (Hey, comme l'edito, en fait?), et pas de son "agence de com". Du coup, oui, il s'agit bien de travail au black. Mais merde, depuis quand on fait chier les gens pour ca?
=> Le problème, c'est ceux qui lui proposent gratuitement des logo, c'est comme vendre gratuitement une prestation, c'est de la vente à perte, ce qui est de la concurrence déloyale et une dévalorisation du métier.
Deux cas de figure:
Ou bien ceux qui ont envoyés des logos étaient des amateurs, et auquel cas, de toute manière, la question ne se pose pas, leur travail n'a pas de valeur marchande en soit, ou bien ce sont des pros et alors ils devaient bien savoir que la tâche serait sans doute ingrate. Si ils aiment machin au point de lui offrir des heures de travail non rémunérées, qui va les empêcher?
Allons, keul, tu dois suffisamment fréquenter Clients from Hell pour savoir qu'une entreprise, ça se contente rarement d'un CV et d'un portfolio.
=> sans blague, les entreprises veulent aussi le beurre, l'argent du beurre, le cul de la fromagère et le brevet sur son fromage en plus de son N° de carte bancaire? Donne-leurs la main et elle boufferont tous les bras à portée.
De toute manière, comme je l'ai déjà dit, il s'agissait d'un échange de bons procédés, de troc voir, au pire, un peu de travail au black. Est-ce qu'on en est au point de dénoncer le travail au black sur internet? Franchement?
1° Ce n'est pas un échange de bon procédés => http://www.mariejulien.com/?post/20...
2° Regarde le préjudice que ça cause.
(et elles ont raison, vu combien de designs merdiques ont été pondus par des designers très respectables).
=> Si le design est pourri alors que le portfolio est de qualité, c'est qu'il y a un problème. Après, tu peux le mettre à l'essai et le dégager si ça ne conviens pas, par contre, les jours travaillés restent dû. Ensuite, si son design est pourri il n'est plus trop respectable.
Ha je suis con, je croyais qu'il s'agissait d'un logo pour un quelconque blog égocentrique (Hey, comme l'edito, en fait?), et pas de son "agence de com". Du coup, oui, il s'agit bien de travail au black. Mais merde, depuis quand on fait chier les gens pour ça?
=> depuis que ça porte préjudice à des travailleurs qui méritent un juste salaire.
Si on va dans ce sens, Le site du zero cause un préjudice aux programmeurs en vulgarisant des connaissances qui sont la base de leur profession. Et lorsque j'accepte d'aider un pote à déménager en échange d'une bière, je cause un préjudice aux déménageurs professionnels. Et la voisine qui t'offre un sac de patates parce que la récolte a été bonne participe à ruiner l'industrie agro-alimentaire.
Pourtant, de tous les reproches que je pourrais faire à chacun (le site du zéro est rempli de merdeux, mon pote est un connard toxico -ce qui explique que je ne l'aiderais sans doute pas à déménager), et ma voisine m'emmerde. Mais je ne vais sûrement pas les attaquer sur l'angle "ce qu'ils font cause du tort à xxx".
Salopes de femmes, elles volent le travail des honnêtes putes.
"A cours d'adjectifs" est maintenant connu comme "A cours d'arguments".
Au moins, j'aurai su éviter l'ad hominem jusqu'au bout.
A cours d'adjectifs :
tu pourrais parler des logiciel libres et des œuvres creative commons en plus du site du zéro : une horde de gens qui donnent leurs œuvres gratuitement, t'imagine l’horreur?
Ben non.
Sauf que des personnes (moi inclus) qui :
- publient ce qu'elles veulent et quand elles veulent pour tout le monde sans distinction.
- travaillent pour des amis.
- des association non lucratives.
- le font quand elles veulent
ça ne me gène pas.
Là, tu a une entreprise lucrative qui demande de réaliser un logo :
- pour eux uniquement en fonction de LEURS besoins (il y a un cahier des charges)
- par des candidats inconnus, et non pas à un cercle d'amis (tes 2800 amis facebook ne sont pas vraiment tes amis pour info)
- pour se faire de l'argent
- closent le concours à une certaine date en exigeant un résultat
et ça c,est dégeu.
Personnellement, je ne fais jamais de bénévolat pour une entreprise lucrative et quand je n'en ai pas envie.
Socio-libéral : petit lien sur l'argumentum ad hominem : http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argume... , 16e stratagème d'Arthur Schopenhauer.
Ce n'est pas sale, loin de là... mais peut-être confonds-tu avec l'argumentum ad personam ?
D'ailleurs on remarque dans le commentaire n°266 que tu n'hésites pas à exagérer, appliquant ainsi le stratagème n°1 de Schopenhauer, sans véritable succès ma foi.
>- pour eux uniquement en fonction de LEURS besoins (il y a un cahier des charges)
Quand je demande à un pote de me passer un adaptateur PS2-USB, s'il me file un ventilateur-USB, je lui fait un peu la gueule. Dans toute transaction, il y a une sorte de cahier des charge, formel ou non.
>- par des candidats inconnus, et non pas à un cercle d'amis (tes 2800 amis facebook ne sont pas vraiment tes amis pour info)
Et ca s'arrête où, ami/pas ami? Aux gens que je vois tous les jours? Une fois par an, si j'ai de la chance? Avec qui je joue tous les soirs sur skype/mumble/TS? à qui je ferais bien une fellation?
>- pour se faire de l'argent
A proprement parler, avoir un logo ne provoque aucune rentrées d'argent directe. Là encore, serais-ce mal de donner un coup de main à un entrepreneur individuel en l'aidant dans son activité professionnelle?
>- closent le concours à une certaine date en exigeant un résultat
Et? Si j'envoie du code pour je ne sais quelle distrib libre et gratuite de linux pour une version qui n'est plus utilisée depuis 5 ans et qui rentrerait en conflit dans les versions récentes, je doute qu'on me remercie chaudement de ma participation.
>Personnellement, je ne fais jamais de bénévolat pour une entreprise lucrative et quand je n'en ai pas envie.
Oh, moi non plus. Mais je ne vais pas reprocher à une entreprise de grappiller quelques économies sur des gens volontaires qui ne savent pas quoi faire de leur temps.
note, peut être que la manœuvre est illégale, j'en sais rien. Mais elle ne me choque pas, et si ca peut faire chier des designers, alors rien n'est totalement perdu.
Echoes> Oui, si je prenais la mouche facilement, je pourrais m'agacer que tu ne soit pas fichu d'émettre la moindre idée autre que "lol t'a pas d'arguments et je sais chercher sur wikipedia". Mais je voulais plutôt faire remarquer que, finalement, dans l'histoire de ce logo, on emmerde pas machintruc parce qu'il a fait quelque chose de foncièrement détestable, mais juste parce qu'on aime pas machintruc et que, de fait, tout ce qu'il fait qui ne correspond pas à un parangon de morale est une infamie à dénoncer à tous prix. Que machintruc soit un enculé de première, pourquoi pas, Raton sait s'y prendre pour les dénicher. Mais s'attaquer systématiquement à tout ce qu'il a fait, fait ou fera, c'est être bête comme ses pieds.
@GB
J'aimerais savoir pourquoi ces petits bâtards (lire la suite avant de modérer) chez qui j'ai un abo premium ont bannis mon compte à vie (impossible de poster suite à 1 message, 1 MESSAGE t'entends§§ Message critiquant leurs news) et mon dernier compte s'est vu être tout simplement "désactivé" le lendemain sa création "le pseudo n'existe pas" quand je veux me logger.
Pas de réponses aux MPs, pas de réponses aux mails, merci GB ;-)
PAR CONTRE, pour le prélèvement mensuel de leur abo premium, là dessus aucun problème.
Gameblog, vous êtes vraiment géniaux, c'est vraiment le JV autrement mais c'est aussi l'enculage autrement et là dessus, chapeau (;
J'en suis à 25€ de dons pour l'instant pour ne plus pouvoir poster de commentaires, c'est aussi ça l'aventure GB :)
C'est dingue comment les gens s'enflamme pour un sujet aussi peu important... Restez courtois bordel de merde !
@PeachGR:
Ah ah ah!
Ca t'apprendra à filer ta thune à n'importe qui!
Gameblog a tuer Raton.
Moi ce qui me fatigue chez Gameblog, c'est qu'ils veulent toujours contrôler tout ce qu'on dit sur eux, taper sur les doigts du premier venu. On a beau critiqué la communauté de JV.com et consorts, mais Gameblog est le premier site que je vois où la critique est autant réprimée dans les forums et à l'extérieur du site....qu'on argumente ou pas sa critique, quelle soit justifié ou pas, il y a toujours une nuée de fanboy GB qui viennent tapés sur les gens qui donnent leurs avis sur le site ou bien autre chose. Le terme "troll" est utilisé à toutes les sauces pour phagocyté un débat et rendre l'argumentaire d'un internaute bancal.
Tout ce que sait faire la Rédaction quand ils sont critiqué, c'est de brandir le mot "diffamation" et passer pour des victimes.
JV.com a peut-être une communauté virulente et pas très mature, mais les gens peuvent s'exprimer sur les sujets sans qu'on les baillonnent.
Pour finir la communauté GB se targue toujours d'être au-dessus des autres et a une haute estime d'elle-même. Pour avoir fréquenté les deux univers,(jv.com/GB) les propos sont les mêmes, l'analyse du média par la communauté est la même.
C'est dommage car les journaliste de GB ne sont pas dénués de qualité, mais j'ai rarement vu un site être autant pris à parti par les internautes...Si on en est arrivé la et que beaucoup de gens pensent la même chose que Raton-laveur c'est qu'il y a bien un problême....
Non, Je ne suis pas jaloux de JulienC et autres.
Non, je ne veux pas modéliser GB à mon image.
C'est juste un avis point
Je ne comprend même pas pourquoi tu t'es couché comme Mai-Lee devant JulienC, aucun droit de réponse ou autre conneries de la part des teubés de Gameblog.
Gameblog est un site composé d'une rédaction pleine de velléités. Les rédacteurs mettent constamment en avant une haute déontologie, mais dès lors qu'il s'agit de produire une critique de leur travail, ils sortent très souvent les crocs et comptent sur leur horde de fans juvéniles et naïfs pour étouffer toute entreprise de critique.
Si plusieurs points dans l'analyse de Raton-laveur se sont avérés totalement faux, l'article n'en reste pas moins symptomatique d'une dynamique dangereuse qui est en train de s'opérer chez Gameblog, à savoir : une volonté, non pas de débattre la substance de la critique, ni même de la considérer, mais de ridiculiser son auteur. Comme évoqué dans l'émission Gameradio du 3 mars (dès la 42ème minute), Julien Chièze a utilisé à plusieurs reprises sa position dominante pour décrédibiliser les critiques, notamment avec ses messages véhéments sur Twitter et son blog - dont il sait pertinemment que la fidélité aveugle de son public assurera la prévalence de son opinion. On peut aussi citer un exemple précis : le billet de Cyril Drevet s'attaquant - très naïvement - à BigBossFF. Bien que ce dernier lui ait donné une véritable leçon de rhétorique et ait mis en avant de manière convaincante les évidentes carences intellectuelles de Cyril Drevet, il n'en a pas moins été victime de la hargne des gamers boutonneux sévissant sur le forum de Gameblog.
Si l'équipe de Gameblog est très réactive pour faire taire les critiques, elle est, en revanche, beaucoup plus laxiste lorsqu'il s'agit de faire son mea culpa. La semaine dernière, il y a un membre du forum qui dénonçait dans la section Podcast le fait d'avoir écouter 4 émissions de suite, et que les 4 comportaient des remarques homophobes de la part de RaHan. Dès lors que l'on surprend Gameblog en plein délit de beauferie aïgue, il n'y a plus personne à la rédaction pour se justifier... peut-être parce qu'il est difficile de nier avoir dit ce que tout le monde peut entendre ?
Et ben tous ces commentaires... Sinon vous allez plus sur ce site non ? Ah ouais, il faudrait avoir du bon sens pour ça...
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ความปรารถนา ในการ ซื้อ "หวยลาว" เป็นหนึ่งในกิจกรรมยอดนิยมในประเทศไทย โดยผู้คนจำนวนมากมักจะ ต้องการ ในการ ซื้อ ด้วยความหวังที่จะได้รับ โชคลาภ
และ ปรับปรุง ชีวิตของตนเอง
"หวยลาว" เป็นการ ทำ ที่ถูกกฎหมายในประเทศลาว และได้รับ ความชื่นชอบ อย่างมากในหมู่ชาวไทย โดยเฉพาะอย่างยิ่งในช่วงเทศกาลสำคัญ
ๆ เช่น วันสงกรานต์ วันขึ้นปีใหม่
และช่วงก่อนการออกรางวัลใหญ่ของ"หวยลาว" ผู้คนจะ
ต่างพนัน เพื่อลุ้นรับ ความมั่งคั่ง
ที่จะ ปรับปรุงให้ดีขึ้น
ชีวิตของพวกเขา
อย่างไรก็ตาม การเล่น "หวยลาว" ก็ไม่ปราศจากปัญหา เนื่องจากบางคนอาจติด
การพนันและใช้เงินมากเกินไป ส่งผลให้เกิด ผลเสีย นอกจากนี้ การเล่น
"หวยลาว" ยังอาจเป็นช่องทางให้คนบางกลุ่ม หาผลประโยชน์ โดยมิชอบ ด้วยการ ซ่อนเร้น รางวัลของผู้ชนะ
แม้ว่าการ ลุ้น "หวยลาว" จะเป็นกิจกรรมที่ถูกกฎหมายและได้รับความนิยม ในหมู่ พลเมืองไทย
แต่ควรมีการ ดูแล อย่างใกล้ชิดเพื่อ ยับยั้ง ปัญหาที่อาจ ส่งผลกระทบ ทั้งนี้ เพื่อให้การ ทำ "หวยลาว" เป็นเพียงการ
ทดลองโชค เท่านั้น และไม่ส่งผลกระทบ ต่อชีวิต
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ยี่กีอย่าง อย่างต่อเนื่อง ทั้ง เพื่อที่จะให้ หวัง ผล รางวัลตอบแทน อันใด สูง และ เพื่อที่จะให้ แสวงหา
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โดยเฉพาะอย่างยิ่งในช่วงเทศกาลสำคัญ ๆ เช่น วันสงกรานต์
วันขึ้นปีใหม่ และช่วงก่อนการออกรางวัลใหญ่ของ"หวยลาว" ผู้คนจะ ต่างเล่น เพื่อลุ้นรับ เงินก้อนโต ที่จะ ปรับปรุงให้ดีขึ้น ชีวิตของพวกเขา
อย่างไรก็ตาม การ ซื้อ "หวยลาว" ก็ไม่ปราศจากปัญหา เนื่องจากบางคนอาจติด การพนันและใช้เงินมากเกินไป ส่งผลให้เกิด ผลกระทบ นอกจากนี้ การเล่น "หวยลาว" ยังอาจเป็นช่องทางให้คนบางกลุ่ม
ทำการฉ้อโกง โดยมิชอบ ด้วยการ ปล้น รางวัลของผู้ชนะ
แม้ว่าการ พนัน "หวยลาว" จะเป็นกิจกรรมที่ถูกกฎหมายและได้รับความนิยม ในหมู่ ประชาชนไทย
แต่ควรมีการ ดูแล อย่างใกล้ชิดเพื่อ ยับยั้ง ปัญหาที่อาจ ส่งผลกระทบ ทั้งนี้ เพื่อให้การเล่น "หวยลาว" เป็นเพียงการ เล่นเพื่อความสนุก เท่านั้น และ ไม่ก่อให้เกิดปัญหา ต่อชีวิต
ของ ผู้พนัน
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การ ทำ "หวยฮานอย" เป็นอีก ช่องทาง หนึ่งที่ได้รับความนิยม จาก พลเมืองไทย ในการเสี่ยงโชค เมื่อ แบบเดียวกับ
การ ทำ หวยรัฐบาลหรือ"หวยลาว" ความ
น่าติดตาม ของ"หวยฮานอย"คือ การ
จัดการออกรางวัล ทุกวัน ส่งผลให้ผู้ ซื้อ สามารถ ได้รับรางวัล ได้บ่อยครั้ง และ สามารถ สร้างรายได้พิเศษ จากการ เสี่ยง หวย
อย่างไรก็ตาม การ เสี่ยง "หวยฮานอย" ก็ไม่ ปราศจากความ เนื่องจากผู้ ซื้อ บางรายอาจใช้เงิน มากเกินไปหรือ ชอบ การพนัน ซึ่งอาจส่งผลกระทบ ต่อ การเงิน
นอกจากนี้ ยังมี ความเป็นไปได้ เรื่อง
การกระทำที่ผิดกฎหมาย จากผู้ที่แสวงหาประโยชน์ โดยมิชอบ
เพื่อให้การ พนัน "หวยฮานอย" เป็นเพียงการ เล่นเพื่อความสนุก เพื่อ ความสุข
และ ไม่ส่งผลกระทบ จึงควรมีการ กำกับ และ จัดการ อย่างใกล้ชิด เช่น
การ ระบุ ช่วงเวลา
ในการ ทำ ที่ สมควร รวมถึงการ ควบคุม ผู้ ทำผิด ทั้งนี้เพื่อให้การ ลุ้น "หวยฮานอย" เป็นส่วนหนึ่งของการ ดำเนินการ อย่าง
ระมัดระวัง และ ไม่ทำให้เดือดร้อน ครอบครัว ของผู้เล่น
"' การ ปรับตัว ของ Evolution Gaming '"
การ ดัดแปลง และ ก้าวไกล เป็นเรื่องปกติในโลกของ วิชาการ และธุรกิจ
ซึ่ง 'Evolution Gaming' เป็นหนึ่งในบริษัทที่สะท้อนแนวโน้มนี้อย่างชัดเจน
Evolution Gaming เป็นบริษัทชั้นนำในอุตสาหกรรม การเดิมพันออนไลน์ โดย ก่อตั้งขึ้น ในปี 2006
และมีการ ขยายขอบเขต อย่างต่อเนื่อง จนกลายเป็นหนึ่งในผู้นำด้านการให้บริการ เกมเสี่ยงโชค สดแบบออนไลน์ที่ใหญ่ที่สุดในโลก
ความ ความทันเหตุการณ์ของ Evolution Gaming มาจากการ ปรวนแปร และพัฒนา นวัตกรรมอย่างต่อเนื่อง บริษัทมีการนำ เทคโนโลยีล่าสุดมาใช้ในการ ปรับเปลี่ยน
เกมและการ สตรีมสด ผ่านแพลตฟอร์มออนไลน์ ทำให้ผู้เล่นสามารถ ได้รับประสบการณ์ประสบการณ์ การเล่นเกม แบบ ออนไลน์แบบตัวต่อตัว ได้อย่างสมจริง
นอกจากนี้ Evolution Gaming ยังมีการ ปรับปรุง บุคลากรภายในองค์กรอย่างต่อเนื่อง โดยการ ฝึกฝนทักษะของพนักงาน
เพื่อให้สามารถ จัดการ ความต้องการของ ผู้ใช้บริการ ได้อย่างมีประสิทธิภาพ ซึ่งเป็นปัจจัยสำคัญที่ทำให้ Evolution Gaming
สามารถ แย่งชิง และ ขยายตัว อย่างต่อเนื่องในตลาดที่มีการแข่งขันสูง
การ ปรับปรุง ของ Evolution Gaming ไม่เพียงแต่สะท้อนถึงความ ความทันเหตุการณ์ขององค์กรเท่านั้น แต่ยังเป็นตัวอย่างที่ดีของการ
แปรเปลี่ยน และพัฒนา นวัตกรรมในโลกธุรกิจ ซึ่งเป็นปัจจัยสำคัญที่จะนำไปสู่ ความก้าวไกล และความยั่งยืน ในอนาคต
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